13 July 2012


PLYMOUTH CITYBUS PROPOSED CHANGES - Make sure you buy The Herald tomorrow to see full details on proposed changes to your network at the end of September. The 4 page pull out includes a route by route list on what we are proposing to do and why! There will also be details on how to contact us with your thoughts.

Plymouth Citybus


  1. Considering thus was billed as a complete revamp of services it is a bit of a damp squib. 43 Southway - City - Ernesettle and 21 Plympton - Devonport seem the big changes, althoufgh i can see reliability issues here!! If you live inb Estover your 50 journey to town has just got even longer with a tour through Leigham, Marsh Mills and now laira a well.. If I were First I would push my 15 here as a faster, direct service to town!!!

  2. The new 20/42 route is fantastic - a link to the new library (currently a 10 minute walk away as the 20 stops at the Ridgeway School), an evening service (not that I'd ever really use it; if I did it would be extremely rarely), though the big thing is a Sunday service. I would certainly use this; it's very inconvenient having to walk quite a way from Woodford to St Marys Bridge/Plymouth Road to catch a 21/22!

    I reckon the 21/51 loop is a great idea - this was so much easier to use than the current 21 and 22. I still think that some should go through Lipson Vale/Laira, maybe every other 21? Also, the 21 that goes to St Maurice should be called the 51; this will considerably ease confusion with elderly passengers.

    27 and 28 - a great idea.
    34 - evening services and a link to the Estover Factories is a great idea.

    New Southway 43 seems quite good; every 10 minutes.

    The new 50 seems to be an extremely long journey, though keeping it as a 50 not continuing to 61s and 62s and vice versa should really improve reliability.

    The 61s and 62s - at least one of these services should go to Crownhill; I sometimes go to the Matalan at Transit Way and get these to Crownhill. Yes the 29 will be restored to Crownhill (why it isn't at the moment I'd love to know), and every 20 minutes, though still one of these going to Crownhill would be great.

    On the whole - a great new network of services, just one or two things to change and it would be perfect.

  3. I notice there are no new areas covered...does this mean Citybus are happy with the market share they have got and don't fancy a battle with First!

  4. Well I've now had an opportunity to look through Plymouth Citybus's proposed network changes. Some of the changes proposed like the 27/28 I am not surprised about. The current service 27 terminating at Deer Park always seemed to me to be a premature terminus.

    The first thing to strike me is that much seems to be unaltered. Services 5, 5A, 8, 9, 23, 24, 25, 31, 35, 43A, 49 and 152 are not mentioned so I presume other than perhaps a few minor re-timings these services will carry on as normal.

    Looking at each of the changes (and this will probably come in 2 or more posts):

    13 no change to the route but extending to Monday to Saturday operation should be welcomed. At one stage this was Saturdays only (when the frequent taxibus was in operation) then moved to Monday to Friday only now back to the sort of service level last seen when First operated the route.

    16 now to run on Sundays every 30 minutes, and hourly in the evenings replacing the 16B. This looks an improvement for Kings Tamerton.

    21 this is one of the more interesting changes. In Plympton it appears that the old 21/51 routes are to be re-instated. Not clear whether they will all be called the 21 whether via Chaddlewood or St Maurice. If so it needs to be clear on the destination display which way around the bus is going. Southern Vectis do this on the Isle of Wight with for example the 1 having 2 routes to Cowes from Newport but only one number. People always need to pay attention to the "via" on the display.

    What surprises me with this is the apparant decrease in frequency for Chaddlewood, effectively going from a 10 minute frequency down to every 20 minutes. When you think back to the time with First 12 there were some 11 buses an hour to Chaddlewood now 3? Don't think this would have been suggested by PCB if First were still in Chaddlewood.

    Then the 21 will continue on the 26 route to Barne Barton. So the 26 will just really be renumbered but there will be a cross city link from Devonport to Plympton. Looks like PCB may have been reading some recent comments from this site calling for cross city services.

    27 the section between Torpoint Ferry and City Centre will become the 33. No word on frequency - can we assume this will remain every 30 minutes? I expect what was PCBs only cross city route today is being split because of the difficulties getting into the city from Stuart Road at peak hours.

    The eastern end of the route is renumbered as 28 but misses Deer Park and runs to Derriford Hospital like the 28A. This is similar to the old 29 of the late 1980's (except that ended at Bowden Cross I seem to remember).

    The new 27 is in fact the old 28 but going via Deer Park. I can't see people from Eggbuckland taking to the changes well. It's either via Deer Park or Efford and Lower Compton. Travel time will be increased and no increase in frequency. I can't think why they are changing the 27 to a 28 and the 28 to a 27 might as well have left the numbers as they were!

    29 these changes look positive an increase to every 20 mins and serving Crownhill.

    34 it looks like this is going to be extended to Estover Industrial Estate throughout the day rather than in the peak. Surprising change this - has this been brought about by some external funding?

  5. Part 2 of my run through the changes:

    42 this looks confusing. It will go quick via Looseligh Lane to Tamerton Foliot in the peak, but via the George Hotel and Southway off peak. So good for commuters to the city centre from Tamerton Foliot but what about people wanting to get from Southway to Derriford Hospital in the peak - Target Travels 46/47 I suppose.

    The route will also take over the 20 and operate past the City Centre to Steer Park. The route around the back end of Plympton seems odd. I know it's trying to fill some of the 22 but Ridgeway then Hillcrest Drive then Glen Road.

    The flagship route 43 looks pretty much unchanged for Ernesettle but the extension to Southway is interesting. So no 40/41 anymore. These routes go back to the building of Southway in the 1950s at least the 40 anyway. The PCB offering to Southway looks remarkably like Firsts old 17! Every 10 minutes though great for Dunnet Road not so good for the lower part of Southway Drive.

    43B this looks to divert through Fleetmoor Road to Lower Ham and North Prospect. It will need to coordinate nicely with the 13 and 16 through these stretches. Makes the journey a bit longer for travellers from Holly Park and West Park.

    44/44A only down as minor timetable changes.

    50 of all the changes this one looks the most bizarre. Now I've been looking at old timetables sadly for years and working out various route combinations. Never have I ever thought that it would be a good idea to divert the 50 through the Laira narrows and Lioson Vale. The journey will surely be longer from Estover and Leigham to the city centre. Now I could understand running the 50 via Austin Farm, the Bluebird and Mutley Plain to the city centre, this in my view can be as quick as the Embankment. But this route!! I think First will be interested in this change.

    61/62 appear to lose their connection to Derriford Hospital but with all buses serving Transit Way and the 29 increased to every 20 minutes the service looks potentially better despite the need to change buses.

    So looks like some good, mainly no change and some suspect changes from all of this. Finally though no bus to Plympton from Alexandra Road! Well the 42 will go from Mutley to Plympton but via the City Centre so longer.

  6. The proposed 40/41 changes seem crazy, after 40 to 50 successful years of the 40 doing one loop of Southway, and the 41 doing the reverse, why confuse matters by first renumbering to 43, and then sending everything up Dunnet Rd to loop around the top of Southway?! The residents at the bottom of Southway Drive are not going to be pleased to be left with no bus service. I just wouldn't have touched this route if I was Citybus.

    If they wanted to link the 43 across city into a route going up through Mutley/Crownhill, surely it would make more sense to link into the 44 to Whitleigh (didn't it used to do this in the 80's?).

  7. Yes the 40 goes back to the 8th July 1957, so last Sunday was its 55th birthday. It operated to Southway Lane estate, and in 1961 extended as far as Clittaford Road and Flamborough Way as the estate expanded. The familiar 40/41 loop began on 13th February 1966.

  8. From these prospective changes though it looks like Higher Compton will be getting less services. Only the 27 to bluebird every 30 minutes! It wasn't so long ago that there was the 27/27A/28/28A every 10 minutes. Now the 27/28 every 15 minutes will replace 27/28/28A with 6 buses an hour. Now a First re-routed 15 via the Bluebird to Leigham and Estover every 10 minutes that will mix things up!

  9. I note from the Citybus Facebook page today, that the 50 will now operate direct via Embankment Road, not Laira (this makes sense). Instead the 42 will operate via Laira to and from Plympton. The cross city routes proposed (21 and 43) are probably a good thing provided there is ample layover at termini and in the city centre, together with sufficient peak vehicle requirement. Such lengthy cross city routes will surely be subject to delays and subsequent bunching of buses.

  10. So from Royal Parade up North Hill to the top of Alexandra Road you'll now have two different types of 42 on the same stretch of road, one going to Tamerton Foliot, the other to the far end of Plympton?! That cannot be a good idea

  11. Yeah the 42 scenario will get a little confusing.. I wonder why they chganged their mind on the 50 Laia route so quickly!! Could it be that they felt First could steel their customers in Estover with an enhanced 15. Hopefully First will retaliate with something of their own!!

    What happened to citybus service to Ivybridge ???

  12. If I'm honest I don't really mind which route from Plympton operates via Lipson Vale; as long as we have something!

    Another thing that could confuse people waiting for the 21 in Plympton (e.g. at Mudge Way) is whether or not it's going to Chaddlewood or St Maurice. A return of the 51 route number for the one going to St Maurice first?

    Glad to see the 50 will stay across the Embankment.


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