How they've managed to make such a poor job of that, I honestly do not know. The lines are out of place, the logo is too big, and the addition of "part of Go Ahead" looks so out of place.
Are they even allowed to do that? Given 2016 was one of many E200MMCs bought under the Cornwall contract. I get buses move around between Cornwall and Plymouth but surely a bus which was bought specifically for Cornwall should not be in PCB livery If they are short on buses now how are they going to cope when the 64 reg E200s go.
why wouldnt they be allowed to use their own buses wherever they want to? Quite a few Citybus liveried fleet are operating in Cornwall at any one time. Cornwall didnt buy the buses - GSW did. As long as the fleet operating in Cornwall meet the conditions of the contract then the group can moved them around as much as they want.
And I have to agree with the comment about the lack of buses now - like how are PCB gonna cover the cracks in the fleet now
wonder if they regret withdrawing the Citaros / newer darts if they have no immediate plan to obtain any more buses.
I’d say that the coming weeks / months for the PCB fleet aren’t gonna be good - like I’m seeing more and more GCB vehicles beijy used on pcb routes like the 50/51 and 59 in particular.
I’m not too familiar with GCB but they seem to have far too many buses compared to us - although they decided to transfer a load of PCB buses to GCB when we were desperate for new ones.
Now we’re stuck with the ex-Brighton scanias which should be sent to scrap without a second thought
Have a good glance inside the fenced compound when passing next, there must be at least 10-12 PCB vehicles in there that are missing from the road due to mechanical needs/issues. Add another 5-8 parked inside the depot waiting to be worked on/already being worked on and you’ve got around 15-20 buses then floating spare! Granted most of it is knackered and sent to PCB rather than a scrap yard, but the numbers, though tight, are there.
Agreed on 2017, rushed and no thought at all. To most, given the state of the fleet though, I suspect it’ll go entirely unnoticed. 2016 next? Seems to be permanently allocated to Plymouth now?
Anonymous @ 19:14 - I'm out of the area at the moment so will probs be a while before I can see - anything major worth noting that you wouldn't expect to be there? I didn't realise we had so much spare on the gravelpit? Assume all of it is well past it's best and should be scapped asap?
I agree with 2016/2017 - would be perfect for some of the less busy PCB routes - ie the 59 that require smaller routes. 251 used to cover that a lot but I believe that's long been withdrawn?
I've noticed that the ex Stagecoach GCB E400's have been covering PCB routes a lot - especially the 50/51 and 34.
GCB have too many short e200mmcs. Due to peak demand these are too small for most Cornwall diagrams now, hence seeing several Cornwall buses in Plymouth. Several longer Plymouth vehicles are in Cornwall in exchange. It purely comes to capacity
@anon 1155 - very little movement for the gravel pit in terms of stock waiting to be fiddled with, there are for GNE solos sat there gathering rust with seemingly no plan for what will happen with them, at least two ex-London e200s that haven’t been touched (one smashed to bits due to vandals throwing bricks over the fence), I believe at least one ex-London e400 still too. The gravel is mostly made up though of overflow from the engineers, around 12-15 buses waiting to be fixed in one way or another at any one time. And that’s where the issues with bud availability comes from.
The GNE Solos is one of the weirdest movements of buses in PCB history. Just sat there rotting even though they’re not even that old in relative terms and would be ideal for the Dartmoor Routes that normally use the Merc Minibuses i have no idea why pcb still do those routes mind you.
I believe the damaged ex london E200 is SN57 DWL like why its still around and not been sent to scrap is beyond me as its been like that for ages.
Are any of the really old Darts / Scania’s still about in the depot? Eg 373 which I know was still on the gravelpit fairly recently
Those Solos are too long for the 55&56 so not suitable for Dartmoor work, but more than reasonable enough for normal work, a perfect example would be standard workings of the 20, 20A & 48! 2013 plate Solo SRs sat there untouched while 17 year old e200s are rattling themselves to bits around the city!
Poorly looked after thats the problem.Was on a bus the other week that broke down- driver wasnt best pleased in slightest ss vehicle had broken down previous day twice with same fault. It has to be said though that the depot is starting to resemble a junkyard.
@Anonymous10 August 2023 at 22:02 - what bus was it?And totally agree about the depot - although the last time I saw a photo of it was about 6months ago so I'm sure it can't exactly be any better!!
there is a photo of 2017 on facebook - if you follow the Plymouth Bus News and Photos group. Looks OK to me - but the standard size fleetname does look big on such a small bus.
i think the core problem is the inconsistency throughout the fleet, some of the Scanias have lines in places they shouldn't be, and the addition of Part of Go Ahead to 2017 looks slapped on. I really don't understand why PCB do not use Ray Stenning - considering it's a GA company, and the vast majority do. Makes very little sense. Also think that PCB need a rebrand, as Red & Plymouth don't particularly go together considering we're a "ocean city" - First Cornwall got the right idea with their Green!
They stopped using Ray due to the costs as I remember it, if there is less money to spend at the moment then thats a saving. as for Plymouth not being red - sorry but Citybus will always be red. Ocean City doesnt mean anything to the vast majority of people. Its good for marketting Plymouth as a City but nothing to do with the buses. I do agree it could all de with a rethink and a decent tidy up. I dont mind the lines livery but feel something equally simple on a red base could be done in a tidier manner. Oxford seemed to be going down a simpler route with a base colour and a few simple coloured lines - could be made to work in Plymouth. As for First Kernow - I really do like their green livery but they dont seem that bothered by it as they have loads of different liveries in several different styles, and lots of the fleet in older liveries still. If they could stick to one basic design and use variations of it for route branding it would bring the fleet together. As much as I dont like the current Stagecoach liveries, you know its a Stagecoach bus as soon as you see it.
I'd say that I have to agree with Graham there. The green does look neat with the First Kernow livery.
I do like unique liveries compared to the typical First / Stagecoach liveries which you can see up and down the country and I hate their liveries with a passion.
The majorty of the swoop PCB vehicles look knackered compared to the newer swoop liveries - even if it does look out of place.
i do agree with you, something to tidy it all up would be ideal. In reference to Citybus being red - B&H recently revamped their entire look - some people don't like it, however i feel like it's a really nice simple desgin with a nice hint to the city of Brighton. PCB doesn't need something majorly over the top, but something has to be better than the plain boring red we've had for so long now, surely?
in all fairness the next mini mmc that gets the lines is likely to be done different, 2017 is wrong everywhere, im not even staff and i can see that they could of made the lines livery work hugely better, the logo placement for go ahead could be placed in a better spot, and the main PCB logo could be smaller, doing these small changes mean they can move the start of the lines up more so it dont look half missing and half cut off and a bodge job of a livery.... its missing the curve part that bugs me aswell... if it was still a swoop livery it would be fine
I see on bustimes (i know it's a free for all and not very accurate) but user 5042 has edited a load of the older E200's and marked them as withdrawn? Surely this ain't true - thats a huge chunk of buses again going...
4 hours ago 5042 161 - YX09 FLV removed from fleet list They are starting to withdrawn 133-166 excluding 147-159. JB has confirmed.
I find the bustimes site to be generally a bit of a waste when it comes to trying to track. One minute it says one thing then another user changes something completely and nothing makes sense. Jason Beverley said on FB that there ‘was a plan’ for the older e200s… the man works in customer services, I have no doubt he has inside knowledge but he is not in the department where decisions on fleet movements are made. ‘There is a plan’ for everything, but plans don’t have time stamps. Other than those Graham has already confirmed, the e200s remain in front line service.
Everyone needs to remember it is a numbers game… they have little to no spares (concerning that it’s school hols and still very little spare… god help them in Sept!!), but anyway, little to no spares. How can a batch of stock be withdrawn and the network keep going? There are approximately 20 long e200s in the PCB fleet? Has anyone seen 20 replacement vehicles arrive? No? Me neither…
Fleet cannot be withdrawn without significant service reductions or vehicles joining the group, neither of those things has happened.
idk who user 5042 is but they have made a few changes that really dont make sense, if i want to know whats in the fleet ill just stick to the official one on the PCB website itself... (at the bottom of the website)
i've been looking at that recently to see which buses haven't been tracking as much - obviously harder when half of the fleet are in cornwall, but there are significantly less scania's on the road now - may well be because of the e400 batch, or school holidays. Did notice them running the PA services at the weekend though.
Bus times is massively annoying. Users keep changing stuff to what they think is right and other and then other people keep changing it back. The fact Plymouth Citybus and Go Gornwall Bus are two separate operators also means that quite often buses on the map show up in weird locations where they have either gone down into Cornwall or come up from Cornwall where they constantly changing between Cornwall and Plymouth. If 133-146 and 160-166 do get withdrawn then they would need a load of buses from somewhere. Especially give the Brighton Scanias are wrecks. Naturally more E200 and E400s would se the sensible idea for replacements.
With all these "rumoured" withdrawals of scanias, gas buses and the older e200's, i wonder what will replace any of this stock whether new or hand me downs
There are large numbers of new electric buses joining a few GA fleets over the comings months - London Oxford Manchester at least. There will be a large number of bus movements between fleets so I am sure there will be buses available within the group for Citybus - would not be surprised is more ex London stock makes it way down eventually. Unless Plymouth gets a decent allocation of new money for zero emission buses from the Govt I cant see anything new heading this way for a while.
Go-Ahead Oxford Bus is receiving no less than 104 new electrics in 2024 to replace its entire fleet, much of which is mid-life and will certainly be redeployed elsewhere. Sadly as Plymouth has been unsuccessful in attracting either BSIP or ZEBRA funding the chances of new buses being ordered are miniscule.
Considering that PCB find the Gas buses inefficient to run in cost terms, i very much doubt, unless there's a significant cash injection as Graham says, that we'll receive any of the new electric/gas buses.
I just don't see how PCB can make Gas or Electric work with the hills and other geographical parts of the city. It works for somewhere like Bristol as there are relatively few steep hills.
are hills really a problem for electric or gas buses? The gas buses dont seem to have a problem with the hills in Plymouth. Scotland has loads of electric buses entering service as they seem to be funding them properly up there. Last time I checked there are plenty of hills up there. The biggest problem that's stopping us getting electric buses is being able to afford them. If were were part of scotland we probably would have some by now.
exactly and its probs the infrastructure as well. Milehouse isn’t exactly a 21st century modern depot so that upgrade work would also have to be completed.
lets be real unless guys&girls know something i don’t we aint gonna get any new buses anytime soon
Yes you are right there - the infrastructure is an issue for all depots when the introduce electric / hydrogen / gas buses. Its a big cost that needs factoring in properly. The one good thing that Milehouse has lots of, compared with many city bus depots is space which will maker it easier when they dome to building in the fuel system, they eventually go for. I believe the plan was to look more to hydrogen but not sure if that ever got very far
exactly that - its a weird concept and I mean the PCB fleet is tiny compared to what it once was so I assume there’s plenty of space for a new fuelling area for the future buses.
Anyone else noticed the mass rebrand going on within GoAhead? Recently noticed Southern Vectis have a new logo - but every bus company now required to display Part of GoAhead on their websites and marketing material - 2017 now makes a lot of sense now. Wonder what else is coming out of Go Ahead directly from this angle.
Hills are no problem for electric buses. Quite the opposite in fact. They have far more torque than diesel buses. Take the E400 - diesel is 250 hp (187kw), electric (BYD) is 402 hp (300 kw). They're very powerful vehicles, just as their diesel v electric train counterparts are.
All good being powerful, but that uses the battery faster which is what I was referencing. It doesn't always work either Boris buses are known for being terrible on hills.
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GCB E200 mmc 2017 is now transferred to PCB - tramlines being put on.
ReplyDeleteThink it looks absolutely awful
DeleteHow they've managed to make such a poor job of that, I honestly do not know. The lines are out of place, the logo is too big, and the addition of "part of Go Ahead" looks so out of place.
DeleteAre they even allowed to do that? Given 2016 was one of many E200MMCs bought under the Cornwall contract. I get buses move around between Cornwall and Plymouth but surely a bus which was bought specifically for Cornwall should not be in PCB livery If they are short on buses now how are they going to cope when the 64 reg E200s go.
Deletewhy wouldnt they be allowed to use their own buses wherever they want to? Quite a few Citybus liveried fleet are operating in Cornwall at any one time. Cornwall didnt buy the buses - GSW did. As long as the fleet operating in Cornwall meet the conditions of the contract then the group can moved them around as much as they want.
Deleteanyone got a pic of 2017 in tramlines? not seen it yet
DeleteAnd I have to agree with the comment about the lack of buses now - like how are PCB gonna cover the cracks in the fleet now
Deletewonder if they regret withdrawing the Citaros / newer darts if they have no immediate plan to obtain any more buses.
I’d say that the coming weeks / months for the PCB fleet aren’t gonna be good - like I’m seeing more and more GCB vehicles beijy used on pcb routes like the 50/51 and 59 in particular.
I’m not too familiar with GCB but they seem to have far too many buses compared to us - although they decided to transfer a load of PCB buses to GCB when we were desperate for new ones.
Now we’re stuck with the ex-Brighton scanias which should be sent to scrap without a second thought
Have a good glance inside the fenced compound when passing next, there must be at least 10-12 PCB vehicles in there that are missing from the road due to mechanical needs/issues. Add another 5-8 parked inside the depot waiting to be worked on/already being worked on and you’ve got around 15-20 buses then floating spare! Granted most of it is knackered and sent to PCB rather than a scrap yard, but the numbers, though tight, are there.
DeleteAgreed on 2017, rushed and no thought at all. To most, given the state of the fleet though, I suspect it’ll go entirely unnoticed. 2016 next? Seems to be permanently allocated to Plymouth now?
Anonymous @ 19:14 - I'm out of the area at the moment so will probs be a while before I can see - anything major worth noting that you wouldn't expect to be there? I didn't realise we had so much spare on the gravelpit? Assume all of it is well past it's best and should be scapped asap?
DeleteI agree with 2016/2017 - would be perfect for some of the less busy PCB routes - ie the 59 that require smaller routes. 251 used to cover that a lot but I believe that's long been withdrawn?
I've noticed that the ex Stagecoach GCB E400's have been covering PCB routes a lot - especially the 50/51 and 34.
GCB have too many short e200mmcs. Due to peak demand these are too small for most Cornwall diagrams now, hence seeing several Cornwall buses in Plymouth. Several longer Plymouth vehicles are in Cornwall in exchange. It purely comes to capacity
Delete@anon 1155 - very little movement for the gravel pit in terms of stock waiting to be fiddled with, there are for GNE solos sat there gathering rust with seemingly no plan for what will happen with them, at least two ex-London e200s that haven’t been touched (one smashed to bits due to vandals throwing bricks over the fence), I believe at least one ex-London e400 still too.
DeleteThe gravel is mostly made up though of overflow from the engineers, around 12-15 buses waiting to be fixed in one way or another at any one time. And that’s where the issues with bud availability comes from.
The GNE Solos is one of the weirdest movements of buses in PCB history. Just sat there rotting even though they’re not even that old in relative terms and would be ideal for the Dartmoor Routes that normally use the Merc Minibuses i have no idea why pcb still do those routes mind you.
DeleteI believe the damaged ex london E200 is SN57 DWL like why its still around and not been sent to scrap is beyond me as its been like that for ages.
Are any of the really old Darts / Scania’s still about in the depot? Eg 373 which I know was still on the gravelpit fairly recently
Those Solos are too long for the 55&56 so not suitable for Dartmoor work, but more than reasonable enough for normal work, a perfect example would be standard workings of the 20, 20A & 48! 2013 plate Solo SRs sat there untouched while 17 year old e200s are rattling themselves to bits around the city!
DeleteTotally agree with that - infuriating to be honest. The older buses aren’t even in a state where i’d consider them roadworthy half the time!
DeletePoorly looked after thats the problem.Was on a bus the other week that broke down- driver wasnt best pleased in slightest ss vehicle had broken down previous day twice with same fault. It has to be said though that the depot is starting to resemble a junkyard.
Delete@Anonymous10 August 2023 at 22:02 - what bus was it?And totally agree about the depot - although the last time I saw a photo of it was about 6months ago so I'm sure it can't exactly be any better!!
Deletethere is a photo of 2017 on facebook - if you follow the Plymouth Bus News and Photos group. Looks OK to me - but the standard size fleetname does look big on such a small bus.
ReplyDeletei think the core problem is the inconsistency throughout the fleet, some of the Scanias have lines in places they shouldn't be, and the addition of Part of Go Ahead to 2017 looks slapped on. I really don't understand why PCB do not use Ray Stenning - considering it's a GA company, and the vast majority do. Makes very little sense. Also think that PCB need a rebrand, as Red & Plymouth don't particularly go together considering we're a "ocean city" - First Cornwall got the right idea with their Green!
DeleteThey stopped using Ray due to the costs as I remember it, if there is less money to spend at the moment then thats a saving. as for Plymouth not being red - sorry but Citybus will always be red. Ocean City doesnt mean anything to the vast majority of people. Its good for marketting Plymouth as a City but nothing to do with the buses. I do agree it could all de with a rethink and a decent tidy up. I dont mind the lines livery but feel something equally simple on a red base could be done in a tidier manner. Oxford seemed to be going down a simpler route with a base colour and a few simple coloured lines - could be made to work in Plymouth.
DeleteAs for First Kernow - I really do like their green livery but they dont seem that bothered by it as they have loads of different liveries in several different styles, and lots of the fleet in older liveries still. If they could stick to one basic design and use variations of it for route branding it would bring the fleet together. As much as I dont like the current Stagecoach liveries, you know its a Stagecoach bus as soon as you see it.
I'd say that I have to agree with Graham there. The green does look neat with the First Kernow livery.
DeleteI do like unique liveries compared to the typical First / Stagecoach liveries which you can see up and down the country and I hate their liveries with a passion.
The majorty of the swoop PCB vehicles look knackered compared to the newer swoop liveries - even if it does look out of place.
i do agree with you, something to tidy it all up would be ideal. In reference to Citybus being red - B&H recently revamped their entire look - some people don't like it, however i feel like it's a really nice simple desgin with a nice hint to the city of Brighton. PCB doesn't need something majorly over the top, but something has to be better than the plain boring red we've had for so long now, surely?
Deletein all fairness the next mini mmc that gets the lines is likely to be done different, 2017 is wrong everywhere, im not even staff and i can see that they could of made the lines livery work hugely better, the logo placement for go ahead could be placed in a better spot, and the main PCB logo could be smaller, doing these small changes mean they can move the start of the lines up more so it dont look half missing and half cut off and a bodge job of a livery.... its missing the curve part that bugs me aswell... if it was still a swoop livery it would be fine
DeleteOn another note truronian website has announced 4 new(to them) coaches to fleet
ReplyDeleteI see on bustimes (i know it's a free for all and not very accurate) but user 5042 has edited a load of the older E200's and marked them as withdrawn? Surely this ain't true - thats a huge chunk of buses again going...
ReplyDelete4 hours ago
5042
161 - YX09 FLV
removed from fleet list
They are starting to withdrawn 133-166 excluding 147-159. JB has confirmed.
I find the bustimes site to be generally a bit of a waste when it comes to trying to track. One minute it says one thing then another user changes something completely and nothing makes sense. Jason Beverley said on FB that there ‘was a plan’ for the older e200s… the man works in customer services, I have no doubt he has inside knowledge but he is not in the department where decisions on fleet movements are made. ‘There is a plan’ for everything, but plans don’t have time stamps.
DeleteOther than those Graham has already confirmed, the e200s remain in front line service.
Everyone needs to remember it is a numbers game… they have little to no spares (concerning that it’s school hols and still very little spare… god help them in Sept!!), but anyway, little to no spares. How can a batch of stock be withdrawn and the network keep going? There are approximately 20 long e200s in the PCB fleet? Has anyone seen 20 replacement vehicles arrive? No? Me neither…
Fleet cannot be withdrawn without significant service reductions or vehicles joining the group, neither of those things has happened.
Certainly all of the 08 plate are still in service 136 to 146. And east Yorkshire 162 to 166. Only ones retired Is 135 160 161
Deleteidk who user 5042 is but they have made a few changes that really dont make sense, if i want to know whats in the fleet ill just stick to the official one on the PCB website itself... (at the bottom of the website)
Deletei've been looking at that recently to see which buses haven't been tracking as much - obviously harder when half of the fleet are in cornwall, but there are significantly less scania's on the road now - may well be because of the e400 batch, or school holidays. Did notice them running the PA services at the weekend though.
DeleteBus times is massively annoying. Users keep changing stuff to what they think is right and other and then other people keep changing it back. The fact Plymouth Citybus and Go Gornwall Bus are two separate operators also means that quite often buses on the map show up in weird locations where they have either gone down into Cornwall or come up from Cornwall where they constantly changing between Cornwall and Plymouth. If 133-146 and 160-166 do get withdrawn then they would need a load of buses from somewhere. Especially give the Brighton Scanias are wrecks. Naturally more E200 and E400s would se the sensible idea for replacements.
DeleteWith all these "rumoured" withdrawals of scanias, gas buses and the older e200's, i wonder what will replace any of this stock whether new or hand me downs
ReplyDeleteThere are large numbers of new electric buses joining a few GA fleets over the comings months - London Oxford Manchester at least. There will be a large number of bus movements between fleets so I am sure there will be buses available within the group for Citybus - would not be surprised is more ex London stock makes it way down eventually. Unless Plymouth gets a decent allocation of new money for zero emission buses from the Govt I cant see anything new heading this way for a while.
DeleteGo-Ahead Oxford Bus is receiving no less than 104 new electrics in 2024 to replace its entire fleet, much of which is mid-life and will certainly be redeployed elsewhere. Sadly as Plymouth has been unsuccessful in attracting either BSIP or ZEBRA funding the chances of new buses being ordered are miniscule.
DeleteConsidering that PCB find the Gas buses inefficient to run in cost terms, i very much doubt, unless there's a significant cash injection as Graham says, that we'll receive any of the new electric/gas buses.
DeleteI just don't see how PCB can make Gas or Electric work with the hills and other geographical parts of the city. It works for somewhere like Bristol as there are relatively few steep hills.
Deleteare hills really a problem for electric or gas buses? The gas buses dont seem to have a problem with the hills in Plymouth. Scotland has loads of electric buses entering service as they seem to be funding them properly up there. Last time I checked there are plenty of hills up there. The biggest problem that's stopping us getting electric buses is being able to afford them. If were were part of scotland we probably would have some by now.
Deleteexactly and its probs the infrastructure as well. Milehouse isn’t exactly a 21st century modern depot so that upgrade work would also have to be completed.
Deletelets be real unless guys&girls know something i don’t we aint gonna get any new buses anytime soon
Yes you are right there - the infrastructure is an issue for all depots when the introduce electric / hydrogen / gas buses. Its a big cost that needs factoring in properly. The one good thing that Milehouse has lots of, compared with many city bus depots is space which will maker it easier when they dome to building in the fuel system, they eventually go for. I believe the plan was to look more to hydrogen but not sure if that ever got very far
Deleteexactly that - its a weird concept and I mean the PCB fleet is tiny compared to what it once was so I assume there’s plenty of space for a new fuelling area for the future buses.
DeleteAnyone else noticed the mass rebrand going on within GoAhead? Recently noticed Southern Vectis have a new logo - but every bus company now required to display Part of GoAhead on their websites and marketing material - 2017 now makes a lot of sense now. Wonder what else is coming out of Go Ahead directly from this angle.
ReplyDeleteHills are no problem for electric buses. Quite the opposite in fact. They have far more torque than diesel buses. Take the E400 - diesel is 250 hp (187kw), electric (BYD) is 402 hp (300 kw). They're very powerful vehicles, just as their diesel v electric train counterparts are.
ReplyDeleteAll good being powerful, but that uses the battery faster which is what I was referencing. It doesn't always work either Boris buses are known for being terrible on hills.
Delete