Interesting document regarding the 50 new electric buses for Plymouth:
Information about the subsidy provided by Plymouth City Council
Plymouth City Council is proposing to provide a subsidy of up to £12.3 million to a commercial transport operator Plymouth Citybus Limited to secure the delivery of a project comprising:
- the acquisition of a fleet of 50 zero emission double decker buses (ZEBs) which will cover specified bus routes within Plymouth and to/ from the Rame Peninsula, South East Cornwall
- the provision of related charging infrastructure to support the use of the ZEBs
The project will reduce carbon emissions and improve air quality both directly, from the operation of the ZEBs; and indirectly from the electric buses displacing the current 33 Euro VI type diesel buses and 17 Euro V operating on the routes the ZEBs will operate, whilst, at least, maintaining the level of service enjoyed on the bus routes to be decarbonised.
The subsidy equates to up to 43% of the total project cost of £28.3m. The balance of the project cost will be financed from Plymouth Citybus Limited’s own non-publicly sourced group reserves.
The subsidy itself is financed from the Department for Transport’s Zero Emission Bus Regional Area (ZEBRA) 2 Fund (84%); and from Plymouth City Council (6%) and Cornwall Council (10%) which are the relevant local transport authorities for Plymouth and the Rame Peninsula. The Department for Transport element includes £0.8 million contingency funding, which will only be paid in the event of quantified project risks materialising. In the absence of such, the proposed subsidy award by Plymouth City Council to Plymouth Citybus is limited to a maximum of £11.5 million.
Plymouth Citybus is part of a large international company group; the Go-Ahead Group Limited which includes Go-Ahead Holding Limited, the parent company of Plymouth Citybus. The subsidy payment it will receive will be subject to:
- the parent company and/or Plymouth Citybus funding any deficit in the project costs
- the ZEBs operating on the agreed routes for at least 5 years
- the buses to be replaced by the ZEBs being cascaded through Plymouth Citybus Limited’s fleet to remove outstanding Euro IV double deck buses and retro fitted (Euro IV to Euro V) double deck buses from its Plymouth based bus fleet
- additional public benefits being secured, namely the ZEBs meeting enhanced accessibility standards and the ZEB charging infrastructure being available for use by local community groups
All bus operators in the statutory Plymouth Enhanced Bus Partnership were offered the opportunity to partner with Plymouth City Council in its application for ZEBRA 2 funding for Plymouth. Plymouth Citybus took up the offer. All bus operators on the Plymouth Enhanced Partnership Board endorsed the application, in recognition of its wider value to the Bus Partnership.
Without the proposed subsidy the project would not progress and the significant decarbonisation of bus transport and air quality benefits for Plymouth and the Rame Peninsula would not be realised.
Information for third parties
If you wish to comment on matters relevant to the SAU’s evaluation of the Assessment of Compliance concerning Plymouth City Council’s proposed subsidy to Plymouth Citybus, please send your comments before 5pm on the date stipulated in the timetable above. For guidance on representations relevant to the Assessment of Compliance, see the section on reporting period and transparency in the Operation of the subsidy control functions of the Subsidy Advice Unit.
Please send your submissions to us at: SAU-PlymouthBuses2024@cma.gov.uk copying the public authority rosemary.starr@plymouth.gov.uk.
Please also provide a contact address and explain in what capacity you are making the submission (for example, as an individual or a representative of a business or organisation).
Notes to third parties wishing to make a submission
The SAU will only take your submission into account if it can be shared with Plymouth City Council. The SAU will send a copy of your submission to Plymouth City Council together with its report. This is to allow the public authority to take account of the submission in its decision as to whether to create or modify the subsidy or its assessment. We therefore ask that you provide express consent for your full and unredacted submission to be shared. We also encourage you to share your submission directly with Plymouth City Council using the email address provided above.
The SAU may use the information you provide in its published report. Therefore, you should indicate in your submission whether any specified parts of it are commercially confidential. If the SAU wishes to refer in its published report to material identified as confidential, it will contact you in advance.
For further details on confidentiality of third party submissions, see identifying confidential information in the Operation of the subsidy control functions of the Subsidy Advice Unit.
Full details on how to make submissions (buy the 25the September) can be found here:
I presume that this sort of referral will be made by all the councils that are handling the money provided through the ZEBRA funding or is Plymouth somehow a different case?
Although no announcement has been made by Citybus yet, I would expect the ADL 400 EV to be the most likely contender for the order such as this one from Stagecoach Oxford:
©Martin Ruthe CC BY-SA 2.0
This has to be one of the best good news stories for bus passengers in Plymouth all year.
ReplyDeleteRemember late 2015 early 2016 with all of 147 to 159 new, 521 to 531 then 532 to 538 plus all the then new stagecoacj buses. This is probably the biggest influx of new buses since then for Plymouth. Good news to see.
Why does SE Cornwall always seem to get the newer buses these days? I remember when the 43 and 50 routes used to always get the brand new buses and the previous buses would be cascaded onto other routes.
ReplyDeleteThere are fifty electrics coming, not five - I think (correct me if I am wrong) that the balance of 45 will be allocated the 21/21A and 42 group, these being the busiest routes in Plymouth, with the Enviro400 Citys cascaded.
DeleteThe vehicles for the 70 group (Rame Peninsula) were new in 2015 so will be ten years old when the electrics arrive. The Transport for Cornwall contract in 2020 did call for a number of new vehicles, but this was part of the contract requirements and was funded by Government, administered via the County Council.
I’ve mentioned this previously, it does my nut in. Always seems to be for the 70 / Torpoint routes, maybe thats where the money’s at??
DeleteLike yeah ultimately as long as a bus turns up thats the most important thing but certain routes like the 34 just seem to get the cr*p buses
1999 T reg SPDs went onto 43 and 21 51 (Plympton)
Delete2002 52 reg SPDs went onto 43
2004 54 plate SLFs buses 72 to 79 went onto 43A and 43B as it were
2005 Citaros onto Plympton
2007 Citaros onto 43
2008 Enviro 200 were new for 40 41 42 but end of 2009 in the bus war were put onto the brand new at the time 5 5A
2012 Volvo Eclipses were onto 43 and 43A
2013 E400s were on the 21 21A and Blue Flash 12 to Tavistock (was it really 11 years ago!)
2015 E400s were on the 50 521 to 531
2016 E400s were on the 70 and two briefly in green for Plymstock
2017 E400 on the 21
2019 E400 on the 42
So in reality, routes for new buses have been quite varied
Thanks Anon for this excellent breakdown of new buses over the years. It does show the favoured routes, interesting to see how the 43 seems to have fallen down the ranking! The main routes these days will be the 42 and 21s which will always get the better buses with the rest being cascaded down the line. Cornwall routes often attract the additional funding from Cornwall CC so they will also see better buses.
DeleteJames - the reason why SE Cornwall gets the new buses - easy to answer that one - Money! Even with this big order Cornwall CC is paying more money than Plymouth CC. Its the same reason why all those years ago Torpoint depot got those nice brand new Tridents whilst the rest of First D&C were running whatever scraps were being thrown away by the rest of the group alongside all those ancient (but lovely!) VRs.
DeleteI had it in my mind that the Cornish routes were getting rather more than 5 of the 50, the number 13 comes to mind but I cant see a reference to that anywhere! I assume that the Plymouth routes will be the 21 and 42s - but that release plenty of decent double decker's for the other routes in Plymouth - and at least it does state that they should stay in Plymouth.
DeleteIt was 6 for the 70 group.
DeleteIt was half 5 this morning i wrote this comment about the new buses , now a better version of it now properly awake and had chance to look back at things !
DeleteJune 1996 - Dennis Dart SLF's 1 to 12 - new for 43 and 23/24. All retired from service during 2014, largely through corrosion issues. Bus 10 was by far the last one to stay in service, Bus 9 first one to go summer 2013. PCC provided improved raised kerb facilities at key bus stops on those routes , to maximise the benefit to passegners of the low floor buses.
May 1998 - Dennis Dart SLF's 13 to 26. 14 buses as part of a Service change Sunday 24th May 1998. Principally new on 21/51 Plympton, with the rest on 16 and 35. This improved 21/51 from Mini to slf. 13 and 16 were both at Plymouth Hoe Rally on Sunday 17 05 98, 13 entered in the Rally, 16 used as Rally Control. 14 was first to enter service on 17.05.98. Various from this batch were made DDA compliant with ramps in 2014, with several repainted, too. 16 17 21 23 25 the last to stay in service, with 17 lasting until late 2018.
May 1999 - Dennis Dart SPD's 28 to 40. New for 43 and 21/51. These carried more seats than SLF and had new features such as double glazing, Purmo blown heating rather than saloon radiators, a bigger engine and a different gearbox.
Displaced SLFs onto 40/41/44/44A, and Step Darts went onto 8/9 and part of what was 28/28A/29. This also saw the 16 interwork onto the 35 improving both routes. Several routes, 40 41 44, 21 51, 8 and 9, saw frequency reductions from 8 to 6 trips an hour, but on SLF instead of Minibus. Most retired during 2016. Bus 28 famously the first low floor to go in 2010.
Oct 2000 - Dennis Dart SPD's 41 and 42 new for service 18, Devonport to Cattedown, partly funded by the Regeneration Budget. Both carried lettering to this effect. MPD's 201 to 204 new for 25/25A Milehouse Park and Ride to Barbican/West Hoe.
Jan 2001 - Dennis Dart SPD 43 new. Apr 2001 - Dennis Dart SPD 44 to 48 new. All retired during 2016/2017. Sept 2001 - Dennis Dart SPD 55 to 59 new. All retired during 2016 for chassis corrosion. 59 retired Summer 2015 for same reason.
These vehicles together converted what were the cycles of 50 61 62 from DART to SLF / SPD.
Thanks G!
DeleteRegarding vehicle choice, nothing is off the table. Although your illustration is the new ADL Enviro400 EV, that is a Stagecoach Vehicle - Go-Ahead Oxford City has chosen the Wright Streetdeck Electroliner for its electric routes. Meanwhile in London, Go-Ahead is reportedly buying a batch of the new BYD-BD11 double-decks. Then there's the new Yutong U11DD - Pelican's customer support for Yutong operators in the UK is apparently second-to-none. The BYD-ADL collaboration appears to be winding down since both manufacturers now have their own integral designs, so perhaps the BYD 8DUR/ADL Enviro400 City EV is unlikely.
ReplyDeleteI’m sure I read somewhere, possibly even a comment on this blog somewhere, that PCB were looking to diversify away from ADL for the new vehicles. Unsure how much truth there is in that but I’m sure it was mentioned about how the E400Citys and MMCs had become very problematic in a relatively short space of time.
DeleteWould be nice to see something decent on the streets of Plymouth, would be interesting to see if they are painted in tramlines too, or if they get some special kind of livery/branding.
Yes, but citybus have only ever had ADL buses, enviro 200,400,400mmc. only 13 gas buses but that’s it. they seem to only stick to adl.
DeleteThanks Julian - I agree that nothing is off the table so it will be interesting to see what they go with. I guess it will be a choice between ADL, Wright or the new BYD which on paper sounds impressive at least. Also unknown is if Go-Ahead Group themselves have a preference and will be pushing Citybus in any direction. They seem to have left their operators to chose so far but the new management may have other ideas! The large standard group orders like we see for Stagecoach must make financial sense at least!
Delete"Although your illustration is the new ADL Enviro400 EV, that is a Stagecoach Vehicle - Go-Ahead Oxford City has chosen the Wright Streetdeck Electroliner for its electric routes." Yes, and interestingly both companies' electric buses use identical liveries,
ReplyDeleteIts a nice touch that Stagecoach have been allowed to make a suble change to fit their national brand too.
DeleteThe similarity of the liveries was deliberate - the scheme to electrify all routes in the Oxford Smartzone (essentially, all the City routes) was supported by the Government's ZEBRA funding. Oxford has an Enhanced Bus Partnership in place and the aim was to present all the Smartzone routes as a single network.
DeleteSame with Leicester. First, Arriva and Roberts Coaches use the "Leicester Buses" name with a lime green livery with only slight variations between companies. A requirement of the quality partnership with Leicester City Council. Almost all of First Leicester's fleet are now electric and Arriva Midlands have a smaller number.
DeleteLeicester is slightly more complicated than that, as you say all electric buses are operated in a similar shade of green but the application is completely different between operators & LCC has their own style for the buses they own which operate on routes they support (originally the LCC plan intimated the intention for the core high-frequency commercial network was going to be colour branded by route/corridor but clearly that changed after the initial announcement). All buses used on services within the Partnership area should display the Leicester Partnership logo prominently regardless of power source. The major Leicester operators are First, Arriva (who are actually quite bad at displaying the Leicester Buses logo & branding, none of their electrics appear to have it displayed prominently) and Centrebus who have 14 electrics (though all City council owned and operated on services fully or partly supported by the City Council). Roberts only operate the LCC funded Park & Ride services and are a smaller player alongside Vectare/Central Connect plus out of town operators Kinch & Stagecoach who I don't think are expected to display the partnership logo.
DeleteGood to see so many interesting comments again. It's been rather quiet recently. Well done, guys.
ReplyDeletecertain buses in the pcb fleet has started to see next stop screens installed.. currently only know of 2018 and 2019 but prob is more minis thats been done.. interesting to see them starting to pop up
ReplyDeleteinteresting…
DeleteIt's a legal requirement that all buses first used after 1 Oct 2019 have fully operational next stop displays/announcements from 1st Oct 2024, ie, next week!
DeleteIt's only new buses that have to have next stop announcements and displays from October 2024 all other older buses have until October 2026. Stagecoach Southwest had a few buses with this on a couple of years ago, but it seems now it doesn't work anymore
Delete