13 July 2015

Its all changes on the buses

Well its been an interesting weekend with plenty of comments on the blog. Keep them coming!

All eyes will be on Stagecoach over the coming weeks as they start to lay out their plans and then even more eyes will be watching to see how they get on with Go Ahead…

So what little do we already know?

Torpoint?

The Torpoint depot staff have been told that the depot is closing, and they will be transferred to the Plymouth depot with Stagecoach.

 

Buses?

It is believed locally that no vehicles are involved in this sale as there are 42 non compliant buses in Plymouth, mainly the Hong Kong Darts, some native Darts and all the B6BLEs, out of an allocation of 96. First just recently have started painting compliant buses into the new First livery so things are looking a little smarter than of recent. These buses are required by First to replace older buses elsewhere within First, probably Cornwall.

I have also seen it mentioned that some buses may well remain on loan to Stagecoach initially while other buses are sourced from within Stagecoach. Stagecoach are very good at this so I suspect it won't be long before the local fleet is all Stagecoach.

Services

Its clear that they are not coming in and just running everything the same. Notices have just started appearing on VOSA and there are some interesting route number changes at least.

I will be covering the full registrations in due course but as a taster this is what has appeared so far…

    1. PH1020951/235 - STAGECOACH DEVON LTD T/A Stagecoach South West, BELGRAVE ROAD, EXETER, EX1 2LB

      • EBSR New Registration Created
      • Starting Point: Coypool Park & Ride
      • Finish Point: Plymouth Royal Parade
      • Via:
      • Service Number: 200  former PR2
      • Service Type: Normal Stopping
      • Effective Date: 07-SEP-2015
      • Other Details: Mondays to Saturdays except Bank Holidays every 10/12 mins
    2. PH1020951/236 - STAGECOACH DEVON LTD T/A Stagecoach South West, BELGRAVE ROAD, EXETER, EX1 2LB

      • EBSR New Registration Created
      • Starting Point: Royal Parade
      • Finish Point: Mount Batten
      • Via:
      • Service Number: 2 retains same number
      • Service Type: Normal Stopping
      • Effective Date: 07-SEP-2015
      • Other Details: Daily service upto 20 mins Mon-Sat and hourly on Sundays and Bank Holidays on each service
    3. PH1020951/238 - STAGECOACH DEVON LTD T/A Stagecoach South West, BELGRAVE ROAD, EXETER, EX1 2LB

      • EBSR New Registration Created
      • Starting Point: Kingsbridge
      • Finish Point: Dartmouth
      • Via:
      • Service Number: 3 former 93
      • Service Type: Normal Stopping
      • Effective Date: 06-SEP-2015
      • Other Details: Mondays to Saturdays approx hourly, Sundays & Bank Holidays - 4 journeys each way
    4. PH1020951/239 - STAGECOACH DEVON LTD T/A Stagecoach South West, BELGRAVE ROAD, EXETER, EX1 2LB

      • EBSR New Registration Created
      • Starting Point: Kingsbridge
      • Finish Point: Dartmouth
      • Via:
      • Service Number: 3
      • Service Type: Normal Stopping
      • Effective Date: 07-SEP-2015
      • Other Details: School Terms only from Dartmouth to Kingsbridge
    5. PH1020951/240 - STAGECOACH DEVON LTD T/A Stagecoach South West, BELGRAVE ROAD, EXETER, EX1 2LB

      • EBSR New Registration Created
      • Starting Point: Tavistock Bus Station
      • Finish Point: Bishopsmead/Courtlands Road
      • Via:
      • Service Number: 89
      • Service Type: Normal Stopping
      • Effective Date: 07-SEP-2015
      • Other Details: Mondays to Saturdays except Bank Holidays approx hourly
    6. PH1020951/248 - STAGECOACH DEVON LTD T/A Stagecoach South West, BELGRAVE ROAD, EXETER, EX1 2LB

      • EBSR New Registration Created
      • Starting Point: Devonport
      • Finish Point: Coombe Dene School
      • Via:
      • Service Number: 806
      • Service Type: Normal Stopping
      • Effective Date: 07-SEP-2015
      • Other Details: Schooldays, one journey in each direction
    7. PH1020951/249 - STAGECOACH DEVON LTD T/A Stagecoach South West, BELGRAVE ROAD, EXETER, EX1 2LB

      • EBSR New Registration Created
      • Starting Point: Plymouth
      • Finish Point: Tavistock
      • Via:
      • Service Number: 1 former 83 / 86
      • Service Type: Normal Stopping
      • Effective Date: 06-SEP-2015
      • Other Details: Daily Service.

      It all seems so long ago now...

      IMG_0005

      38 comments:

      1. How come some people can see these registrations on VOSA but others of us can't?

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        Replies
        1. There are several different ways of searching on VOSA and it does take a while sometimes for everything to show on the main pages. I searched by operator over a date range and they came through.

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        2. Thank you. I see what you mean. I'd never used that section before as I assumed it only covered items that had already appeared in already published N&Ps. Clearly not.

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      2. Pity to lose the historic route numbers, however I look forward to seeing significant investment in new buses. Great to see the Badger and flags livery from over 20 years ago!

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        Replies
        1. If Tavistock is to be service number 1, what number(s) will be used for Saltash?

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        2. No service no needed as there will be no service.

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        3. If you know this to be true, why not just simply say "There isn't going to be a service to Saltash"

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      3. Nothing listed about Kingsbridge to Plymouth! First keeping it or no service.?
        This above explains some of the out of area Stagecoach buses appearing in Torbay.

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        Replies
        1. give them time - registrations are still being processed so there is plenty more to come.

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        2. It is likely that, because of its length, it is being registered in two halves. First don't come into the picture as they will have no operations now between Exeter and Bodmin/St. Austell. It is most unlikely that Stagecoach will leave Plymouth-Kingsbridge to Citybus - it would not make sense from an operational point of view.

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        3. the 93 has been split into two sections for quite a few years now. I am sure the other half will follow!

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        4. Has Stagecoach stuff already started appearing from elsewhere already as alluded to in the top post regarding 'out of area Stagecoach buses appearing in Torbay'?

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      4. Have you seen the Stagecoach statement? https://www.stagecoachbus.com/First%20Plymouth%20Acquisition.aspx?hootPostID=c8ff9b225d25d5f761152742d676c8c3

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      5. The buses will be loaned until new year.

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        Replies
        1. Anonymous 13 july at 16:39...you need to explain more, as on its own this comment makes little sense.
          You need to say who is lending the buses and who they are lending them to.

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        2. I don't need to do anything!
          Stagecoach are renting 26 of the newest buses in the First Devon fleet until the New Year.

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        3. that means the average age off stagecoach buses in devon will go up

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      6. number 3 bus ever hour on sunday what a joke people use city bus now ,look like things are gone get lot worse with stage coach

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        Replies
        1. Clearly you have not read the post above. The number 3 is the current service 93 which is already operated every hour on a weekday. The Sunday service is 4 times a day.

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      7. I am sure Stagecoach will have a service to Saltash. 1 reason being they are compelled to keep services for 2 years after takeover...same as when Ga took over PCB. secondly, they have not bought Plymouth services etc to run it down,,,, Note in the Herald tonight they say it is subject to VOSA accepting their proposals for a new PLymouth network. I would not call what First run now a network. PCB AKA GO Ahead should start to worry now...!

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        Replies
        1. where do you get the idea that SC needs to keep services for 2 years? There is no mention of this anywhere that I can see, and no reason why there would be such a condition.

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        2. I think the 2 years comes from accepted industry interpretation rather than any 'sale' agreement. It is of course often inserted into sale agreements that employees' jobs are free from redundancy for 2 years. Stagecoach have offered such things in the past when taking over businesses.
          If starting a brand new bus service, the pragmatic operator anticipates this length of time for that service to become established in the market. Obviously performance is monitored over that time. Some operators don't allow this long and will change routes frequently.

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        3. I think Anonymous 1754 is getting confused. I am sure this was the stipulation by PCC when Go Ahead purchased Citybus to ensure that services were not cut as soon as they were taken over. There is no way that Stagecoach would agree to that when even Alex Carter says they have been making losses over several years. I am sure Stagecoach will only run routes where they see a financial return for their investment.

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        4. I've certainly never heard of any accepted industry practice to ossify services for two years after take over, and I work in the industry.

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        5. Correct, it's not accepted industry practice. This is where anon 1754 is getting mixed up. There are sometimes caveats placed to protect service levels and jobs (and PCC did this when selling off PCB to GA) but more often there isn't as the rationale of the purchase is to obtain synergies and reduce costs.

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      8. I should expect Citybus to get their annual fare increase in during the next few weeks before the increased competition arrives then, Really can not see SC not going Saltash as it is one of Firsts more profitable routes. I would expect SC to be going more places not less in order to build up business and make a profit. Would also expect a massive advertising campaign highlighting their new network during August.
        This is a great opportunity to hit the ground running with an extensive city wide network straight from the start as they will expect to make losses to start with, start up costs etc
        Give it 12 months, knowing SC track record in these things, I can see drivers leaving GA to move to the more stable SC, a total turnaround. The heat will be on those at Milehouse from them above as results go south. They will wish they had left First alone. The Mountbatten extension to PCB network aimed at pushing First out as totally backfired...oops!

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        Replies
        1. SC certainly wont be coming in with a City wide network. They will have a job bringing in a full fleet of buses in time for the few routes that First already run let alone a big increase in services. They would also be need to have recruited a lot of extra drivers already for that to happen. I am sure to begin with they have looked at the services First already run and have decided which ones they want to rake on. There are quite a few sources who say that Saltash and Torpoint are not on the list, but until all the registrations are posted then we wont know for sure. I dont believe they have come to Plymouth expecting or hoping for a fight with Citybus, although they wont be the push over that First have been. Citybus will know this!

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        2. I very, very much doubt that Stagecoach will want to enter a peeing contest with Go-Ahead.

          Stagecoach doesn't usually take on the big boys in all-out wars; even in the old gung-ho, early-deregulation-era days, it was places like Darlington where the competition was weak that they went in guns blazing.
          Nowadays they prefer to buy their way into places, and they don't go into anywhere new without doing their maths first.

          I'd suggest that earlier comments about Plymouth being a useful add-on to their current Devon operations are pretty close to the mark. Anyone dreaming of bus wars in Plymouth is doing just that: dreaming.

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      9. Stagecoach look to have done a full review of what they want to run - we shouldn't guess what they will run until all the registrations are lodged with VOSA.

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      10. Does anybody know if the early First Tridents are fully DDA compliant?

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      11. I feel pleased for the loyal drivers at first, who have stuck with them. I hope its onward and upward for them. They have had enough stick this last couple of years saying your depot will be closed in April, come across to city bus, now, but they stuck with it and i hope they get the jobs they deserve with stagecoach. Its been said first have had quite a few calls for jobs yesterday, keep up the good work lads,

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        Replies
        1. stage coach to rent new buses of first what newer buses first have in Plymouth there aren't any newer buses there all rubbish buses ,what number will the number 3 bus be now to Devonport

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        2. Anon 17:06 - there's a difference between Stagecoach renting new buses as opposed to newer buses.

          In terms of the First fleet, newer could consist of the dozen or so Tridents (from 52 plate to 08 enviros) as well as the B7Ls. Not new, barely modern, but newer!

          What is apparent is that Stagecoach will have a fair job in mobilising fleet to replace this but you can doubtless be rest assured that an add-on to their existing order will appear, with some new fleet sent to give an immediate boost (a long standing Stagecoach trick) and others delivered elsewhere to allow cascading across the country.

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        3. Plenty of buses already on order for SD, so an add-on to the existing group order and a revision of the destinations planned for new vehicles and subsequent cascades aross the group will more than likely be on the cards. Some fleets across the country will probably have the new or cascaded buses they were expecting deferred or delayed for a while to enable any buses due to be cascaded away from Devon to stay, such as perhaps the Solos, Exmouth Scanias and Exeter P&R buses. Nothing unusual in that, circumstances change, it's happened for donkey's years. NBC, for example, were past masters at it.

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        4. The buses are already there every region will be providing a few buses for Plymouth.Some new stock will be diverted there.Stagecoach has planned for this.Wait till the start dat
          y.

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      12. Have any more registrations come through yet as i can;t even see these on VOSA.

        I note they state that the deal is conditional on VOSA accepting their new NETWORK so there must be a fair few more route registrations to come I would say.

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        Replies
        1. Not seen any new ones yet, but there is a fair gap in registration numbers so clearly plenty to come. I guess we will start to see them on VOSA over next day or two

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