11 March 2013

Citybus Explain

We now have the official run down on the forthcoming Plymouth Citybus timetable changes on the 5th May:

On Sunday 5th May, Plymouth Citybus will be implementing a service revision. To keep you all updated well in advance we have listed what will be changed route by route below. As you can see quite a few of the services will benefit from being re paced after the changes implemented six months ago, in order to make them more reliable.

  • Services 5 & 5A

Minor change to journey times within the route to improve the overall pacing of the service. Later Sunday evening bus.

  • Services 8 & 9

Increased journey times to improve reliability, and the overall pacing of the service.

  • Service 14D

Minor change to journey times within the route to improve the overall pacing of the service. The14D will continue from HMS Drake to Plympton as a 21/A.

  • Service 16

Revised journey times. With the last journey on a Sunday to be withdrawn.

  • Service 20

Minor change to journey times within the route to improve the overall pacing of the service. Facility for onward travel on the Service 42 to Derriford Hospital is to be withdrawn with customers needing to change buses at either North Hill or City Centre.

  • Services 21 & 21A

New cross City service, which will merge the current 21/21A with the 26. Running from Plympton to Barne Barton via the City Centre and back in the opposite direction. Sunday service in Devonport will be increased to up to every 15 minutes to match the current 21/21A frequency.

  • Services 23 & 24

Increased journey times to improve reliability, and the overall pacing of the service. The Sunday service is to be reduced.

  • Service 25

Reroute via Bretonside instead of Buckwell Street to meet public requests. Summer timetable to commence until last Sunday in September.

  • Service 26

To be merged with service 21/21A to create a new cross City service. See left.

  • Service 26A

Route will now run from Eggbuckland to Barne Barton, then continue on as a 21/21A to Plympton via City Cerntre.

  • Services 27

Sunday services to depart Derriford Hospital 3 minutes earlier.

  • Service 28

Sunday services to depart Derriford Hospital 3 minutes earlier. Additional peak journeys during school times.

  • Service 29

Minor change to journey times within the route to improve the overall pacing of the service. Outbound route revised to operate from Crownhill Road via Budshead Road to Tavistock Road.

  • Service 30

New half hourly Monday to Friday service following service 29 route from Derriford to St Budeaux (Victoria Road), then to Saltash (Fore Street, Callington Road, Liskeard Road (Ploughboy) & Saltash Business Park to Pillmere).

Service 29 and 30 will provide a service up to every 15 minutes Monday to Friday daytimes, between St Budeaux and Derriford Hospital.

  • Service 33 & 33A

This new circular route now incorporates Ford. The 33 will run clockwise from City Centre to Stoke, then onto the Ford and back to the City Centre. Service 33A will run the same route in the opposite direction.

  • Service 34

Monday to Fridays during the School holidays the Service between Royal William Yard and the City Centre to be increased to up to every 15 minutes during the day.

  • Service 35

Minor change to journey times within the route to improve the overall pacing of the Service.

  • Services 40 & 41

Minor timetable changes on some Sunday journeys

  • Service 42/42A

Revised journey times to improve the overall pacing of this service. Additional Services in the peaks to provide a service up to every 15 minutes for most of the day Monday to Friday. 42D to be renumbered 42.

  • Service 43

Minor change to journey times within the route to improve the overall pacing of the Service.

  • Service 43A

Revised service to run every 15 minutes Monday to Saturday, operating from Plymouth to Latchbrook via St Stevens and Maybrook Drive. 43A will no longer serve Callington Rd and Pillmere, which is served by service 30.

  • Service 43B

Minor change to journey times within the route to improve the overall pacing of the service.

  • Service 44/44A

Minor change to journey times within the route to improve the overall pacing of the service.

  • Service 45

Minor change to journey times within the route to improve the overall pacing of the service. The 06:10 service on a Saturday is to be withdrawn.

  • Service 46

This service is to be withdrawn due to very low customer numbers.

  • Service 50

Minor change to journey times within the route to improve the overall pacing of the service.

  • Services 61 & 61A

The current 61/62 will be replaced by a new service 61/61A. Combined services will depart the City Centre every 10 minutes Monday to Friday, 15 minutes on a Saturday and 30 on a Sunday. 61/61A will be a circular route with 61 running from the City Centre to Honicknowle, on to Transit way and then Brake Farm and Peverell, finishing back in the City Centre. Service 61A will run the same route in the opposite direction.

These services will no longer serve Derriford Hospital. Please see service 29 and 30 for new connecting journeys to Derriford from West Park and Transit Way.

  • Service 152

Replaced by new service 30


New timetables can be seen here

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  1. Wonder what they'll put on the 8/9 & 23/24. At present the 8/9 are assigned T-reg SPDs with the 23/24 assigned Mini Darts, which won't have sufficient capacity for the 8/9.

    The 16 appears to still change with the 35, so I'd assume these will still have the 08 Enviros.

    The 20 appears to remain as a 20 throughout the day Mon-Sat and seems to need three buses. Will be interesting to see what we end up with, perhaps 64, 65 and 66 like we used to have?

    The 21/21A destinations could prove a problem. As was mentioned a long time ago on this site, a 2 way loop in Plympton and a 1 way loop in Barne Barton makes numbering difficult. This isn't the problem, however. That lies with the City Centre destinations. Up until a few weeks ago, there wouldn't have been a problem. The thing is, that now Citybus have re-introduced scrolling via destinations, e.g.

    'City Centre 21'
    'Via Ridgeway 21' (on a separate 'page' flicking between the two every few seconds).

    However, if in Barne Barton the driver was to select 'City Centre 21', it would say 'Via Ridgeway 21', unless they create two separate ones. A bit of a rambling I know, so sorry if it's not that clear!!

    The 29 Schoolday only run at present at 1714 is moved back ten minutes to 1704 - makes perfect sense really. This trip comes from the 129 School Contract to Horrabridg, arriving at its terminus of Manor Garage at 1635. It only takes around 15 minutes to get to Derriford, so the driver still has plenty of time.

    New 30 is a very positive move. I hope they don't run it with DDs like they do with the 152 though! This is their logic for you; run the 0750 peak trip from Saltash with an MPD which I'm told goes onto the 13 during the day, which is full to the brim and standing, with plenty of complaints about the MPD being used on this trip, and then run the daytime trips with 4 people on it with a double decker!! Madness.

    The 33/A certainly looks like a move to kill off First's 4.

    Not sure how useful the new short 34s will be - at least extend them into the Torpoint Ferry as there is now only a bus every 30 minutes as the 33 no longer serves it.

    The 42/A looks a bit tight on the timetable for some trips. Glad to see a 1717 inbound trip from Derriford, at present during School Holidays if you miss the 1658 one you have a half hour wait! The 1705 one at present comes from the 101, and the 1713 from the 127. The 1728 one is a duplicate with the second bus starting at Derriford coming from what I believe is the 128.

    43A has an increased frequency, though a considerable route change, where Pillmere residents now have to change buses to go into town. Not sure how much of a problem this will be as I've never been to Saltash!

    The 50 still has the 1712 Schoolday only trip which comes from the 124.

    Someone made a good point on the Facebook page yesterday about the 61/62 being wihtdrawn from Derriford and the 29/30 not serving Crownhill.

    'Correct me if Im wrong, but if the 62 is going to be withdrawn, the 61/a not going to Derriford and both the 29 and new service 30 using the slip road through to tavistock road... No buses from West Park or transit way will be operating the crownhill loop?'

    Again, I can easily walk it, however is it not too much to ask for at least one to serve the Crownhill Loop?

  2. Whilst most of it seems to make sense disappointed with the loss of connection for customers from service 20 to 42 that seems like a very backward step. Disappointed too that there is more of an attack on first in Plymstock/oreston, Torpoint and West Devon maybe that will come in future ? Why is the service no longer going to the Torpoint Ferry ?

    1. “Disappointed too that there is more of an attack on first in Plymstock/oreston” From my personal point of view I am very relieved that Citybus run their 5 and 5A as without there would be no Monday to Saturday evening buses after 20.20 (First’s no 6) and 18.05 (First’s no 7)

    2. It would need to do a loop around Park Avenue though, which in my mind would spoil the 'clean' look of the service on the map. The 20 not changing to a 42 and vice versa does seem like a backwards step. It does appear though to be to do with reducing layover times (as do a fair few of these changes to be honest). At present, the 20 upon reaching town has a 10 minute layover before departing as a 42/A, at Tamerton it then has an 8 minute layover before returning to the City Centre, then ten minutes again before departing as a 20 to Plympton. The new 42Ds have 5 minutes before returning to Derriford - a big improvement over how they at present sit in Bretonside for about 20 minutes!

  3. the 34 still visits the torpoint ferry. citybus may well have torpoint and beyond, mountbatten and perhaps tavistock, up their sleeves for future expansion, i guess its a game of wait and see, and if they think they can win battles on any corridor. They have offered new oppotunities with the 33/33a as a faster link to town from ford, this will pinch people from the first 4. the cross city link will add to the 21 and take from the 3, so maybe citybus think they can win these battles before taking on bigger teritory such as plymstock. will be interesting how saltahs pans out. Prehaps they are going ahead one step at a time!!

  4. @Anon 1523: I believe if Citybus were one day to withdraw the evening Service 5/5A,the Council should really look into subsidising an evening service for Plymstock, as the entire of Plymstock (other than Pomphlett, Gooswell, Hooe & Mount Batten covered by the 2) would be 'cut off'.

    It will be interesting to see how the new 33/A works out, and, indeed how many passengers it will take from First. I think they'll probably put the 08 Enviros on it, perhaps 'pinching' them from the 16/35. They're nice and comfortable and Saltash really need some 'decent' buses, as they used to have the B7RLEs, though from the end of December the 43A/B were merged and the B7RLEs were too big to turn around at Holly Park. So the three B7RLEs from the 43A went onto the 40 and 41, with those three SPDs cascading down through all the running boards, increasing by one each time, e.g. the duty that was assigned to Board 201 would now be assigned to 202, and so on, until eventually we reach board numbers 229, which is Dart 69. 69 70 and 71 were assigned (amongst other darts) to the 61/62, though are now 'spare' following the 3 SPDs from the 40 and 41 being replaced by the 43As B7RLEs. The 61/62 had at least one 54-reg Dart, which, along with 69, 70 and 71 all moved onto the 43A/43B. I did see in early January a fair few N-reg SLFs on the 43A/B (4 especially), though I do see quite a few 08 Enviros on it now. Again, another rambling!

    1. Tom
      I am in no way knocking your "ramblings" as you put it, but am curious as to where or how you get all your information. Please explain.

    2. Purely through observing things! I worked the above out by seeing a few B7RLEs on the 40/41. I then caught one to Crownhill, and on the running board it said 'Vehicle Type: WRIGHTS SGL DECK', which is the B7RLEs. I then worked out these would've come from the 43A. So I then thought, these will have replaced some SPDs from the 40/41. So I then saw Dart 71 on the 43A a few days later, on the running board it was number 231, which is Dart 71, 230 is 70, 229 is 69 and so on. I then worked out that those three SPDs would've worked their way through all the SPD running boards until three were left over, which moved onto the 43A/43B. On the 20/42 for example, up until December 30th our board numbers were 316-322, now they're 317-323, this is because the 61/62 were assigned a 54-plate Dart (I know this as I caught 72 on a 62 once, it said on the running Board 'SLF (Ramp), which moved onto the 43A/B, so each SLF running board increased by one in the same was as the SPDs mentioned above. We now normally see during the week 20/21/22/23/24/25/26.

      The 'mock up' running boards I have created have again been 100% from observing what routes that vehicle does in a day. The school journeys I've mentioned are easy - make a mental note of what vehicle you see departing PHSG (or anywhere) on a school run, and remember to keep an eye out for it later in the evening!

      Basically, all of it I have worked out myself through observing routes covered in a day/allocation changes etc. I thought a question similar to this would appear at some point!

    3. Thanks Tom, please explain more about the running board numbers. Are these the duty cards the drivers work to? How do you know which bus is on which running board number?

    4. tom get in contact with me on facebook. Michael snoopy Hudson.
      I may be able to help u with something.

    5. Running boards remain with that bus throughout the day; the first driver who takes it out of the depot picks up that vehicle's running board and that board remains with the bus for the entire day, with each driver referring to it. It's basically a list of timing points for all the routes the vehicle covers in the day. Also noted are all driver changes, and any other instructions, e.g. 'PARK BUS BETWEEN XXXX & XXXX'.

      The running board numbers range from highest to lowest class of vehicle (mainly)

      100/101-110/111 - 'WRIGHTS SGL DECK' - B7RLEs.
      150(ish) onwards - 'MERC CITARO' - self explanatory.
      201-231 - 'SPD (Ramp)' - again, self explanatory.
      301-309 - 'SLF (Ramp)' - the 54-plate SLFs (72-79)
      310-335 - 'SLF' - 1-27.
      401-414 - 'ENVIRO 200' - self explanatory.
      501-505 - 'MINI DART' - self explanatory.
      601-608 - 'VOLVO DOUBLE DECK' - The H-reg B10Ms as well as the Student Link fleet (177/8 & 181/2/4/5/6/7).
      701-729 'LF DOUBLE DECKER' - Thee Ex-London B7TLs, East Lancs and PVLs.

      I work out what vehicle is allocated to which running board number again by observations; I've seen 55, 56, 58 and 61 frequently on the 50, with running board numbers 215, 216, 218 and 221 respectively. So, Darts 55/5/6/7/8/9/ & 60 and 61 are during the week allocated to the 50. I've also seen Dart 71 several times with board number 231, which works out as:

      201 - 35
      202 - 36
      203 - 37
      204 - 38
      205 - 39
      206 - 40
      207 - 41
      208 - 42
      209 - 43
      210 - 44
      211 - 45
      212 - 46
      213 - 47
      214 - 48
      215 - 55
      216 - 56
      217 - 57
      218 - 58
      219 - 59
      220 - 60
      221 - 61
      222 - 62
      223 - 63
      224 - 64
      225 - 65
      226 - 66
      227 - 67
      228 - 68
      229 - 69
      230 - 70
      231 - 71

      I'm not sure about 29-34, perhaps these carry on in the 19_ series, or after 231? All those from 206 onwards are guaranteed the correct allocations.

      These are my guesses for the Citaros, SLFs, and Enviros respectively:

      150 - 80
      151 - 81
      152 - 82
      153 - 83
      154 - 84
      155 - 85
      156 - 86
      157 - 87
      158 - 88
      159 - 89
      160 - 90
      161 - 91
      162 - 92
      163 - 93
      164 - 94
      301 - 72
      302 - 73
      303 - 74
      304 - 75
      305 - 76
      306 - 77
      307 - 78
      308 - 79
      309 -
      310 - 13
      311 - 14
      312 - 15
      313 - 16
      314 - 17
      315 - 18
      316 - 19
      317 - 20
      318 - 21
      319 - 22
      320 - 23
      321 - 24
      322 - 25
      323 - 26
      324 - 27
      325 - 1
      326 - 2
      327 - 3
      328 - 4
      329 - 5
      330 - 7
      331 - 8
      332 - 9
      333 - 10
      334 - 12
      401 - 133
      402 - 134
      403 - 135
      404 - 136
      405 - 137
      406 - 138
      407 - 139
      408 - 140
      409 - 141
      410 - 142
      411 - 143
      412 - 144
      413 - 145
      414 - 146

      316-323 are currently assigned to the 20/42/A duties. Board 319, 320 and 321 nearly every single day have 22, 23 and 24 assigned respectively. 601 is assigned to the 124 to Milton Combe that then does the 1712 from Derriford, 602 is the 129 then the 1714 29.

      A bus gets allocated to a running board, as shown above. A running board is then assigned a duty (the collection of routes and times). The duties (the set of routes and times) only change when there is a timetable change. Take board 206 on Sundays as an example:


      They first would've created the duty (the list of routes and times). This then would've been allocated a running board number, which in turn would've been allocated the pre-determined fleet number (in this case 40). If you require any further clarification please don't hesitate at all to ask!

      My 'collection' of 'mock up' running boards I've made can be seen here. A I've mentioned before, all routes and times are correct though have been created myself so are not in any way official!


      Mike - have sent you a message!

    6. mike snoopy hudson14 March 2013 at 21:00

      cheers mate will be in touch

  5. Its a shame that Citybus could not divert a 29 into Ernesettle via Ernesettle Lane, Biggin Hill and through Whitleigh along Budshead road every hour perhaps calling it a 29a, as these areas are left without a link to Derriford Hospital now.

    The 43 and 44 should be merged as to how it used to run in the 80's ie Ernesettle - Royal Parade - Whitleigh and vice versa.

  6. mike hudson pctpg11 March 2013 at 22:25

    tom on our blinds you will see 21/21a showing barne barton via city centre and chaddlewood via city centre. if you see me on royal parade come and say hi and i will show you!

  7. @ anonymous 11 march, the reason for taking off the 46 was extremely low passenger numbers. people moaned that the 46 was taken off, so it was put back on, then no one uses it!!! buses are not cheap to run! if they don't carry anyone to cover costs wots the point in running it! common sense really.....


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