tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post6292460712298326917..comments2024-03-29T07:01:08.281+00:00Comments on Plymothian Transit: Stagecoach in Plymouthdidbygrahamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01858408719372985035noreply@blogger.comBlogger94125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-39924268490694040122015-08-05T23:32:43.598+01:002015-08-05T23:32:43.598+01:00I can't see the 26 new buses being additional ...I can't see the 26 new buses being additional or for new services, I'd guess they're just to replace the the loaned First buses on P&R and to allow some of the other buses to move to where they would have gone if Plymouth hadn't been acquired.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-75785772183512892902015-08-05T20:31:37.691+01:002015-08-05T20:31:37.691+01:00no it isnt an offical comment. just wishing them l...no it isnt an offical comment. just wishing them luck. jeez.mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-29574954753534385852015-08-05T19:49:12.017+01:002015-08-05T19:49:12.017+01:00Great news re Stagecoach continuing the low fares ...Great news re Stagecoach continuing the low fares First do! If they are speding £4mil on 26 New buses they must have plans for Plymouth network we do not know about. With the exception of the 15, although this is largely covered by 1/X1 the services they have got rid of 3/3a and 6 they would have needed to increase fares to make profit, and if PCB didnt follow the routes could have died. If they chose they can launch NEW SC routes with fares they feel will work with the 26 NEW buses etc!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-77675775754985692332015-08-05T17:16:30.197+01:002015-08-05T17:16:30.197+01:00Stagecoach must have enormous confidence in Plymou...Stagecoach must have enormous confidence in Plymouth for 26 new buses. That's at least 3 or 4 million pounds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-53719132776847607882015-08-05T13:17:28.224+01:002015-08-05T13:17:28.224+01:00Agree it is a bit clumsy wording! but certainly th...Agree it is a bit clumsy wording! but certainly the 100 / 101 are the same buses. <br />Not sure about the RED P&R buses coming or not, but elsewhere it does state that there will be 26 NEW buses coming to Plymouth early next year. More on all of this in tomorrows post hopefully<br />didbygrahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858408719372985035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-45369421881433750572015-08-05T12:49:29.114+01:002015-08-05T12:49:29.114+01:00Pretty much the same as Exeter with RED/M2 I woul...Pretty much the same as Exeter with RED/M2 I would suspect we may see the Exeter RED P&R buses coming to be used on the 100/101 but only time will tell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-26872069891679479732015-08-05T12:03:37.136+01:002015-08-05T12:03:37.136+01:00In which case, it seems a very odd way of wording ...In which case, it seems a very odd way of wording it, why use a different phrase at all? <br /><br />I assume there's not an error in there - it would make far more sense for the different wording to apply to the 200, surely?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-29796692078679302072015-08-05T11:37:20.853+01:002015-08-05T11:37:20.853+01:00I think the term "Park & Ride buses"...I think the term "Park & Ride buses" on the101 is a bit confusing. I think it just means the existing buses as mentioned for the 100/200 rather than a separate batch of buses. The 101 will be interworked with the same buses as the 100. Basically in the morning all P&R buses work from Town to The George via Derriford as 101 then return as 100s. In the evening peak this is reversed with buses from town to The George running as 100s and then returning via Derriford as 101s. In between all buses run as 100s both ways. Its actually quite a clever way of using the buses. didbygrahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858408719372985035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-26856392289468924952015-08-05T10:58:03.009+01:002015-08-05T10:58:03.009+01:00Reading between the lines in Stagecoach's late...Reading between the lines in Stagecoach's latest announcement on their website, we can make some possible predictions.<br />https://www.stagecoachbus.com/Plymouth%20timetables.aspx<br />- Existing First P&R buses will stay on the 100/200 until early 2016 (which would tie in with the Exmouth Scania/E400s being replaced, so perhaps instead of going to Torbay they'll be repainted for the 100/200 instead)<br />- "Park & Ride buses" on the 101 - this perhaps hints at using the current Exeter red/yellow P&R vehicles which are due to be replaced imminently (deliveries are up to 10442+ and the Exeter batch was reported as 10452-6, so could well arrive by early Sept)<br />- Solos (47084-90) for Dartmouth and Tavistock locals?<br />- Enviro 200s (37113-20) for 2/2A (and 48?)?<br />- Ex-Wigan MCV saloons (as above?) - assume these are the ex-Bluebird Darts that Wigan can't keep on the road and have been parked up for awhile?<br />- Half a dozen E400s ex-Exeter and Torquay for the existing Gold and X38 duties taken over<br /><br />That's probably getting on for 50 buses and leaves a shortfall - mainly deckers at a guess - for Tavistock and Dartmouth services (and schools?), so it'll be interesting to see where these are sourced from. Plus any coaches due for Megabus, of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-46507792459791963542015-08-04T10:17:32.405+01:002015-08-04T10:17:32.405+01:00It's going to be broadly similar to what it is...It's going to be broadly similar to what it is now for the simple reason that they've said all the drivers' jobs are safe. So something approaching 100. You could probably work it out roughly by going through the timetables on Traveline, adding in around 4 or 5 for Gold and X38, plus another 10% or so for spares. It would seem that fewer buses will be compensated for by running coaches, assuming the Megabus stories are correct but the number of coaches cannot be known as we don't know if it's just Hamilton Gray work coming in or they're changing diagrams run by other depots at the same time, or adding in extra services. The coaches might be officially based at Rugby (say) anyway, just using local drivers as happens now at Exeter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-73246891694238207432015-08-03T09:30:26.981+01:002015-08-03T09:30:26.981+01:00I realise that I may be very premature,but now the...I realise that I may be very premature,but now the dust is starting to settle can anyone from the area hazard a rough estimate at what the fleet strength will be at Stagecoach Plymouth and out stations.............I realise it can only be an estimate,thank you.Bus enthusiast for over 60 yearshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16344421251975625769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-1702823671172447092015-07-30T18:21:33.821+01:002015-07-30T18:21:33.821+01:00Oh for goodness sake Mike, stop being so sycophant...Oh for goodness sake Mike, stop being so sycophantic. I doubt many bus company MDs don't work tremendously hard. That's what they get paid big salaries for. The simple truth is that someone senior at GA or PCB made z very bad call when they decided to create on Torpoint and Tavistock. They had been negotiating to buy Tavistock and Torpoint from First but then when they thought the MMC may stop it they decided to register them instead. First were only weeks away from announcing their closure but changed their plans in the light of the competition. Plymouth would have been GAs over a year ago. Now Stshecoach have the First operation and PCB have run for the city. The only thing you have left is Torpoint which First openly admit was a loss maker when they were the only operator. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-30794393797799234022015-07-30T18:11:46.428+01:002015-07-30T18:11:46.428+01:00Ah right. That must be true then. Never a diff rum...Ah right. That must be true then. Never a diff rumour spread at a bus rally. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-64105193350898423932015-07-30T18:09:04.705+01:002015-07-30T18:09:04.705+01:00So is this an official comment on behalf of PCB th...So is this an official comment on behalf of PCB then? Has the 'Destination Blinds Team' taken over the external communications function at PCB? Does any operator really have a destination blinds team?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-58533825637532568372015-07-30T14:01:10.451+01:002015-07-30T14:01:10.451+01:00Re Keith 30 July 11.34
First,wonderful to reply t...Re Keith 30 July 11.34<br />First,wonderful to reply to someone who uses a name other than Anonymous.<br />Surely,as you say,a simple definition of a monopoly would be almost impossible and each case must be taken in it's own context.<br />Given that PCB is the main operator in Plymouth would just one route worked by Stagecoach destroy that monopoly,or two,or three etc,etc.<br />Every operator has a monopoly of som sort,even if it is only on one route.<br />In Birmingham,where I live,National Express has a monopoly of several main roads in the city,and what realistically can,or should,the Competitions chaps do about it.<br />A bit less muck raking and a bit more common sense would be useful in these matters.<br />As for a previous poster suggesting a law suit against PCB........well,the mind boggles,he is lucky to have a route of any sort......much of the population of,say,Shropshire would be grateful for any kind of service.<br />As long as there is a service,use it and be thankful,of course it is there to make a profit...how else could it exist?Bus enthusiast for over 60 yearshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16344421251975625769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-47304024635457760382015-07-30T11:53:02.806+01:002015-07-30T11:53:02.806+01:00And not forgetting that First did exactly the same...And not forgetting that First did exactly the same thing when the council put Plymouth Citybus on the market. They came in and registered services running over several of the main Plymouth Citybus routes. Had First been as well organised and resourceful as Stagecoach are at these things then they may well have won that battle but instead they ended up pulling out their new services after a very short time.didbygrahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858408719372985035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-9671572863074252332015-07-30T11:34:31.892+01:002015-07-30T11:34:31.892+01:00I doubt if there is a hard and fast definition of ...I doubt if there is a hard and fast definition of 'monopoly'; what the CMA does not like is actions which would lead to all competition being removed. This is why they stepped in to stop Stagecoach buying First out in North Devon; First later pulled out of their own accord and Stagecoach got all their services for free. The CMA can do nothing about that situation - except, perhaps, wipe the egg off its face. Did Stagecoach then make large increases to fares in North Devon? Perhaps someone who lives there can let us know. The head-to-head competition there is certainly minimal.<br /><br />There was no CMA issue with Stagecoach buying out First in Plymouth as competition clearly existed with Citybus; they almost certainly would have stepped in had Citybus tried to buy First. If First had just moved out, then there is nothing the CMA could have done if Citybus had then registered all their services and, therefore, had a monopoly of all commercial operations. First chose to sell, so that they would at least gain something from moving out. Stagecoach then chose to register only a small number of services because those were the ones where they saw a profit without wasting resources over-bussing competitive routes. Citybus withdrew from Tavistock and Mount Batten, presumably, for much the same reason.<br /><br />Yes, commercial operators have to maximise profits to please shareholders - but they are aware that a good way of maximising profits is to have contented passengers and plenty of them. Every empty seat on a bus is an opportunity missed - for ever. Keithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-9040854422050515732015-07-30T11:29:10.706+01:002015-07-30T11:29:10.706+01:00Good luck with that, then, Anon 19:29. I wouldn&#...Good luck with that, then, Anon 19:29. I wouldn't waste your time. Your definition of "SKY-HIGH" fares must be different to mine. Unlimited travel in zones 1 and 2 for £700 per a year (i.e. less than £2 per day) seems pretty good value to me. How does that not encourage people to use public transport?<br /><br />What do you expect the CMA to do? Force Stagecoach to complete, PCB sell half their business to someone else or insist that First come back? Not going to happen.<br /><br />First's fares were cheaper but they couldn't make any money and couldn't afford to replace the buses. I really can't see PCB going down that road, can you?<br /><br />Anon 20:14 - not really a coincidence at all. First's Chief Executive had publicly announced that "In South Devon and Northampton we are almost in a close-down mode". A pretty stupid thing say, granted, but what else were PCB and Stagecoach supposed to do? They had to move to protect their own operations (from each other as much as anything else e.g. Stagecoach wouldn't have wanted PCB to extend the 45 to Torquay, would they?). First shot themselves in the foot big time by making that statement which was tantamount to inviting PCB and Stagecoach to pick off some of the best routes. No way were they going to sit back after that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-6615191286482610852015-07-29T23:59:40.596+01:002015-07-29T23:59:40.596+01:00All the groups are in it to make money for their i...All the groups are in it to make money for their investors. Thats how it works. First is pulling out because it couldn't make any money in Plymouth. I dont know the exact definition that the CMA use for "monopoly" but I'd be surprised if they felt that Citybus had one in Plymouth. They are more likely to consider Stagecoach having the monopoly in Devon, although even they have some competitiondidbygrahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858408719372985035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-7258116955718075882015-07-29T21:45:39.096+01:002015-07-29T21:45:39.096+01:00Can someone translate this?Can someone translate this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-20308193967680176672015-07-29T20:14:47.249+01:002015-07-29T20:14:47.249+01:00Come on Mike, Pull the other ones...you don't ...Come on Mike, Pull the other ones...you don't believe that so how can you expect anyone else to, really ? Citybus only launched routes To Tavi, Torpoint, Ivybridge etc to push First out. They said I quote 'to give our customers more choice, so now your customers don't need the choice ?' What changed ? If First were not about to go there is no way these services would be withdrawn in September!!! How has it taken 2 years for Citybus to work out that the Tavistock route was a non starter when everyone else knew they would not win this one from the start ? Also how can a company decide the Mount Batten route was ''underperforming;'' after less than 3 months in operation. Total nonsense. This looked dodgy even back in 2013 when Stagecoach launched GOLD and Citybus did Tavi and Torpoint all at the same time, bit of a coincidence wouldn't you say ? mmm.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-67461988897410739112015-07-29T19:48:33.926+01:002015-07-29T19:48:33.926+01:00All the big groups have centralised buying to get ...All the big groups have centralised buying to get discounts .The businesses are divided into regions where each area makes a case for new buses and head office looks at the figures and returns.As i write now Arriva Midlands is being merged Arriva The Shires because Midlands has been underperfoming.The problem with First was that they put all their effort on the Train companies and neglected the bus side.Look at Stagecoach with Virgin ,South West ,East Midlands trains they are separate brands.First need to get back to basics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-60664749697768854062015-07-29T19:29:39.438+01:002015-07-29T19:29:39.438+01:00And ripping off the people of Plymouth with SKY-HI...And ripping off the people of Plymouth with SKY-HIGH bus fares to boot, why?, Because Go-Ahead want to line the pockets of their investors & FAT-CATS, not caring one iota about passengers. You should be encouraging people to use public transport, not discouraging. At least with First there fares were cheaper than PCB & their services more popular. If the bus fares go up again in September i will instigate a lawsuit against PCB which will involve the CMA, they now have a monopoly in Plymouth which means they can do whatever they want & try & get away with it, that according to the CMA won't happen, watch your step PCB , your going down!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-36283689305008167322015-07-29T19:03:14.410+01:002015-07-29T19:03:14.410+01:00Keith - I'm not a manager (well, not for the b...Keith - I'm not a manager (well, not for the big 5) but three of my close friends are. One has worked for First for several years. Things are markedly different from the Lockhead era. Much more autonomy now and less top down management and diktat. However, whilst UK bus is making some progress, there are many years of mismanagement to put right and the pressure is on Tim O'Toole to win a major new rail franchise. Also, people are focussing on the sale of Plymouth but fact was that Plymouth was basically screwed with GA competing and a load of non DDA compliant rubbish to replace. It was just a case of hanging on for either GA to retreat (unlikely), close up or sell. The fact that depots have been closed elsewhere nationally is little different from Stagecoach closing some for similar reasons (reduced council tenders and concessionary reimbursement, tender losses, underutilised depots in close proximity to each other etc).<br /><br />Another person worked for Stagecoach in the late 90s/early 2000s and found it surprisingly disappointing. A real lack of innovation and doing the same old stuff though this was in the period when Stagecoach had made an ill fated entry into America. They then left for First (!) which was frying pan/fire stuff and was the stuff of ever decreasing circles. Cut service, lose passengers, lose revenue/profit, cut service (repeat ad nauseum). After a period with local authorities etc, they moved back and are now back with Stagecoach which is much more devolved.<br /><br />The last person began with a smaller group before working for two Arriva subsidiaries. The latter of the two was much more risk averse though both were typified by central control and margin pressure. They now work for Stagecoach but their subsidiary is also much less innovative than the one that person 2 is at.<br /><br />Whilst none of the three have worked for GA or NX, they naturally also have their acquaintances and former colleagues in those organisations. NX is very much devolved (e.g. Dundee has little to do with West Mids, Speedlink or the coach ops) but then again, they are very separate markets with little synergy. GA was more entrepreneurial but has been becoming less so as central influences are exerted - not always visible to the spotter.<br /><br />Fact is that bus enthusiasts look at a "group livery" and think those with the strongest corporate feel or the most standardised fleet must be the most centrally controlled. In truth, it's a lot more nuanced than that.<br /><br />ps remaining anon for obvious reasons!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-21682795883854284702015-07-29T16:12:47.582+01:002015-07-29T16:12:47.582+01:00Thanks for that Bus Enthusiast - you manage to ill...Thanks for that Bus Enthusiast - you manage to illustrate why the name of First is so toxic that in some areas they've decided not to use it. Years of micromanagement and fear management will take a long time to reverse, if there is a business left to salvage. At least now they are being clear on what they see themselves doing. Whilst Stagecoach aren't as wonderful as people imagine (talking from direct experience having worked for them) they do at least provide direction and will invest in their services, something First hasn't been willing to do. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com