tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post3504769875893713334..comments2024-03-28T18:54:00.518+00:00Comments on Plymothian Transit: First Changes explained. First response by Passengersdidbygrahamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01858408719372985035noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-28440261768030411602013-09-26T22:12:07.205+01:002013-09-26T22:12:07.205+01:00Depends what First's objective is though. per...Depends what First's objective is though. perhaps its an investment in teaching competitors that it wont stand by and be rolled over by them - and that it is willing to stand losses in one very small part of its business to protect the rest...You just never know do youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-29189381160354776872013-09-26T18:24:07.105+01:002013-09-26T18:24:07.105+01:00Bush telegraph? Torpoint is a small place, its th...Bush telegraph? Torpoint is a small place, its the most exciting thing to happen since the new ferries!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-15437067527714598732013-09-26T11:23:42.900+01:002013-09-26T11:23:42.900+01:00Who said Torpoint was getting new buses?Who said Torpoint was getting new buses?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-20639857872669708122013-09-26T00:19:38.458+01:002013-09-26T00:19:38.458+01:00First and Citybus need to be sensible about fares....First and Citybus need to be sensible about fares. A price war will not help either. Okay it will be good for passengers in the short-term but reducing fares too much won't be sustainable. Both operators need to charge reasonable fares and aim, between them, to grow the market. They need to focus on getting more people out of cars and onto buses by offering reliable, consistent, high-quality services with smart, clean, well-appointed buses rather than risk this bout of competition descending into a messy public spat. <br /><br />People's comments here are suggesting that FD&C is making a loss in Plymouth. I wouldn't know but if they are, then lowering fares and risking reducing further their already insufficient revenue would appear to be quite a dangerous game to play. They'll need to either cut their own costs operating significantly or attract a lot more paying customers (or ideallly do both) to maintain their income sufficiently to be able to turn a profit. It's a high-risk stategy, so I hope they know what they're doing!Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09289456162510146247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-9578252776144004992013-09-25T21:28:16.885+01:002013-09-25T21:28:16.885+01:00TORPOINT IS NOT HAVING NEW BUSES! where do people ...TORPOINT IS NOT HAVING NEW BUSES! where do people get this info from? it is having current fleet vehicles.mike hudson pctpgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-46482053530612840712013-09-25T10:28:36.016+01:002013-09-25T10:28:36.016+01:00I agree with you that it's an interesting game...I agree with you that it's an interesting game of chess but not on much else! <br /><br />It's too early to say that First has reacted 'strongly'. They've reacted, yes, but as none of the new routes (from either operator) have started yet, no-one can judge who's got the upper hand. There's plenty of time for Citybus to adjust their fares if they want to. On the other hand, First may just cut fares too much that it becomes suicidal - they will need an awful lot more paying (as opposed to concession holders) to generate the revenue. Citybus will need fewer for the same revenue. That plus a share of concession holders (who will get on any bus that comes along) may just allow them to hold on and see what First does next. Good marketing, quality buses and reliable service offerings from both operators may also grow the market sufficiently to keep both operators on the routes. Don't forget that Citybus offers a much denser city network for people needing to get elsewhere in the city and that will be attractive to some.<br /><br />Citybus is making money and has the scope and resources to experiment and try new routes. First is loss-making and in a hole - getting out and turning the operation around (with a couple of untried new city routes, whilst thwarting new competition on two of your key services) is a much bigger task than that which Citybus has. If Citybus's new routes don't work out, they can just move the buses to one of their other existing routes without much trouble - they might have a bit on egg on their face but they'll not be jeopardising their whole business. If First's new routes and defending of Tavistock and Torpoint doesn't work, surely it's game over? Both operators are going to find it hard to get the new routes off the ground but overall, I'd say it's Citybus who are in the driving seat as they have a lot less to lose overall (and I have no links with either).<br /><br />Explain to me why Stagecoach has got off lightly? Okay *if* the X80/X81 is a 'big loss maker', then why hasn't First tried to do something with it previously? There's been next to no marketing, no bold initiatives, no real branding, no investment in vehicles... they've done the bare minimum and let it slide. Why does Stagecoach see such potential in the route that they can justify well-specified, brand new buses even when they were going to be one of two operators on the route? Why couldn't First see some of that possibility? Exactly the same happened in North Devon - First managed decline and did the bare minimum, Stagecoach take-over and quickly are able to justify 21 brand new deckers.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-58172707511049328562013-09-25T09:20:04.490+01:002013-09-25T09:20:04.490+01:00Nonsense. Stagecoach has aleady admitted that the...Nonsense. Stagecoach has aleady admitted that they'd looked into buying Plymouth and walked away. Now, if an operator with a proven track-record of turning around troubled businesses couldn't see a future in it a year ago, why on earth would they want it in another twelve months' time after First has "incurred damage to themselves" and so made the business even less attractive? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-51596515140534462562013-09-25T08:05:31.993+01:002013-09-25T08:05:31.993+01:00I entirely agree with your comments; it does certa...I entirely agree with your comments; it does certainly seem Citybus were intending to pretty much have the City to themselves. I think they didn't expect First to come back with such a strong fight, (neither did I and I'm sure quite a few of us to be honest!) A recent comment makes a very good point; Citybus have new buses to pay for, First don't. This could backfire enormously on Citybus who may well regret starting these routes against First. They could find themselves in a bit of trouble here! Will be interesting to see how it all pans out.Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-86110724272658271442013-09-24T22:04:14.889+01:002013-09-24T22:04:14.889+01:00Looks more like an interesting debate about the si...Looks more like an interesting debate about the situation, not lots of pro whoever comments. This is a really interesting game of chess in my opinion that is being played out. Citybus had the advantage, pretty much championship point if it were tennis! First were on the point of closing down and Citybus knew because they were negotiating with First for the routes they have now registered instead weren't they? Surely if they had just held on First would have closed up and left giving Citybus the whole city to themselves and a huge financial gain. So what was it that made Citybus suddenly register the Tavistock and Torpoint routes? Maybe they thought Stagecoach registering the X80 X81 meant that they had a tip off that First was closing. that is the story going round. If it was that then perhaps Citybus have made a big mistake. Why has First reacted so strongly. is it right that they were furious at Citybus for something? What now? Looks like First do have a plan. Defend Tavistock and Torpoint at all costs but actually improve these routes now they have had to, chuck in city routes that are losing money and concentrate on the best routes and forget about their traditional city routes. Looks like they have decided to be much more competitive in what they run altogether. Give up the X80 X81 which are rumoured to be big loo makers anyway. Cut the fares everywhere and see if it makes their remaining routes busier. At the same time as hitting Citybus hard with all this give them a real headache by competing with them on new city routes that are very strong for Citybus too. If it doesn't work, they just close the doors anyway, not much to lose. Also says to everyone not just Go Ahead that they can compete with them if they want to? So what about Citybus. Expensive buses on new routes to Tavistock and Torpoint where First will be more regular and cheaper. Now more expensive in the City for day tickets and more fare cuts rumoured from First. And two new routes to damage them in the city. Don't know what Citybus can do. Run more buses will be expensive. Cut fares will cost them lots across their routes. Do nothing will for sure see some passengers move to First. like someone said maybe its now down to if Citybus will take a big risk and hold their fares and hope First don't decide to carry on with lower fares and competing routes. looks like First have changed the whole game now. Citybus were close to getting a monopoly. Now they have their hands tied and First is in the driving seat!?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-32288678590515004132013-09-24T20:36:31.677+01:002013-09-24T20:36:31.677+01:00Lots of pro-First, anti-Citybus comments form the ...Lots of pro-First, anti-Citybus comments form the same person? Hmmm.....<br /><br />I'm not on either's side but please appreciate that price is not the be-all-and-end-all and there's still plenty of time for Citybus to announce fare changes. With the concession reimbursement system as it is, it's quite possible to run full buses at a loss, so cheaper fares may not bring in more revenue and if First is already losing money, it may be a case of who can hold their breath longest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-86468158632461143872013-09-23T22:45:59.804+01:002013-09-23T22:45:59.804+01:00prediction first will inflict damage to city bus p...prediction first will inflict damage to city bus proffits whilst incurring damage to them selves only to be sold to stagecoach who will ride into town and finish citbus off this will happen june july next year the deal in my opion has already ben done Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-28063568746193895602013-09-23T20:05:01.644+01:002013-09-23T20:05:01.644+01:00Totally agree re above comments. First new routes...Totally agree re above comments. First new routes cover Efford/Honicknowle/West Park/Pennycross etc all areas that are family orientated with people looking for ways to economise... these new lower fares from First will be very welcome and will entise customers away from Citybus and also new customers onto buses.. rumours are there are further fare reductions to come as well at First and Citybus will not be able to compete on price...when it comes to it most people won't care about brand new buses but will opt for low fares. With First being so much cheaper on Tavistock routes as well, they could killl Citybus off here stone dead whilst launching more low cost routes in Plymouth in 2014 to the likes of Whitleigh etc. Citybus expected First to roll over but it looks like they are going to get one hell of a fight from First now. This could backfire on them here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-1372290746424254002013-09-23T18:53:02.697+01:002013-09-23T18:53:02.697+01:00As a First shareholder I'm glad that UK bus is...As a First shareholder I'm glad that UK bus is starting to show some balls in getting back in there, PCB were expecting First to roll over and die quietly, not the case I'm afraid! Either way, the customer is the real winner in any price war.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-63452179291340229792013-09-23T17:01:38.250+01:002013-09-23T17:01:38.250+01:00With those new prices I think they will be success...With those new prices I think they will be successful in Efford. Clearly a lower income area where everyone is price conscious. With the average size of houses in Efford being large semi-detached there aren't too many OAPs with free bus passes either. The only problem is that you can't get everywhere on a First Dayrider. Citybus have much better coverage on the city as a whole. Alexandra road and Lipson vale are going to have an unbelievable level of service. Which brings up another problem. Alexandra road and Lipson vale will become more congested since all the bus stops are in the road with a lot of poorly placed traffic islands, getting around stopped buses is not always possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-55859880980088320632013-09-23T15:38:11.023+01:002013-09-23T15:38:11.023+01:00First aren't looking like a company closing do...First aren't looking like a company closing down with these announcements, great to see. Sad to see though the local media focusing more on the First changes/ cancellations, than the frequency cuts/ school bus cuts to some areas Citybus are imposing in the next few months. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-26524368845139004872013-09-23T08:30:06.581+01:002013-09-23T08:30:06.581+01:00Surely bums on seats is what it's all about, &...Surely bums on seats is what it's all about, & at those prices, how can they fail? PCB have new buses to pay for. First don't. Very interesting!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-80615144691787668372013-09-22T22:37:15.546+01:002013-09-22T22:37:15.546+01:00if first can hold there nerve then i think city bu...if first can hold there nerve then i think city bus could be in a bit of trouble lower fares cuold mean more passengers making more proffit then comes new routes to take on city bus think city bus too much too soon to agressive in there actions now its first turn to attack my prediction is no won will win both sides will be forced to withdraw also keep an eye out for stagecoach who will be watching closely poss buy out of first plymouth Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-86238515095118169142013-09-22T22:23:22.108+01:002013-09-22T22:23:22.108+01:00First have run at a loss in Devon for years..their...First have run at a loss in Devon for years..their shareholders etc have put up with this,, I think First have played a blinder here...lower fares mean more customers normally...they are running the buses anyway so having more passengers paying less means more revenue, basic common sense really. Citybus wity the new more expensive to run fleet wont be able to compete on price. £6.10 return to Tavi will mean empty buses on that route whilst they loose customers in stongholds like Efford and Honicknole with Cheaper than Citybus fares here as well. They could have scored own goal ere and helped First rebuild.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-34785335650557854202013-09-22T22:17:30.633+01:002013-09-22T22:17:30.633+01:00Inner Zone is zone 1, outer zone is zone 2 (includ...Inner Zone is zone 1, outer zone is zone 2 (includes Torpoint). Zone 3 is north of Woolwell Roundabout. <br /><br />All prices below are for Zones 1 2 and 3. (Tavistock).<br />Dayrider - Adult £6.30 Child £4.80<br />1 Week Adult £22 child £18<br />4 Week Adult £80 Child £64<br />13 Week Adult £235 Child £188<br />1 Year Adult £820 Child £660Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-13093785895438436822013-09-22T22:03:18.529+01:002013-09-22T22:03:18.529+01:00I don't know, but GoAheads shareholders have b...I don't know, but GoAheads shareholders have been promised an increase in bus profits from £70m a year to £100m in four years, now revised up to £105m. That's the problem of course with GoAhead registering directly competing routes to First to Tavistock and Torpoint - it's fine if you think it'll make First pack their bags and leave town, but no such a good move with hindsight if First decide to stay put and meet the competition head on is it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-26097128723048527052013-09-22T18:11:04.515+01:002013-09-22T18:11:04.515+01:00How long do you think firsts greedy shareholders w...How long do you think firsts greedy shareholders will put up with this! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-78687223595994077102013-09-22T11:56:09.782+01:002013-09-22T11:56:09.782+01:00if first wanna price themselves out of business fa...if first wanna price themselves out of business faster, let them get on with it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-8703411546628110072013-09-21T23:20:20.766+01:002013-09-21T23:20:20.766+01:00PCBs Tavistock fares were announced as £4.50 SINGL...PCBs Tavistock fares were announced as £4.50 SINGLE and £6.10 return (First have been £6.20 return). So First are going to be every 20 mins and £4.50 return - PCB are going to be every 30 mins and £6.10 return. Both using leather seated E400s? That could be interesting!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-71864216814365995962013-09-21T23:16:24.348+01:002013-09-21T23:16:24.348+01:00That's this week's announcement! Just the...That's this week's announcement! Just the start - one announcement a week on fares for the next few weeks apparently. Seems like the competitive actions by PCB have finally jolted First into a complete review of everything the do, how they brand it, and what they charge to use it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11828686.post-56082044946358126712013-09-21T20:01:11.979+01:002013-09-21T20:01:11.979+01:00New lower fares announced by First start 22nd Sept...New lower fares announced by First start 22nd September.. First Day £3. First Week (PLYMOUTH) £11 First Month PLYMOUTH reduced from £60 to £40. First Day PLUS includes Tavistock £4.50 First Week PLUS £20 and First Month PLUS £60. Represents some pretty big savings here... Can Citybus match this with their new swanky buses and increased operating costs ??? They will need to but watch their little profit margin disappear !!! They could regret starting this war at Milehouse soon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com